dukes Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 13 hours ago, Woodytom said: Our record without Westwood proves that he should be nowhere near the team regardless of the other useless midfielders at our disposal. Yes, the same goes for Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo and Messi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milfner Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 hour ago, TRO said: Just watching Spoty last night and taking in the training and dedication of some of these Olympians. They earn a small proportion of the monies that football players attract. Is it too much to ask, that when they are struggling, that they apply themselves to the training regime and work their way through their demise. I see our players constantly lose out in duels/ challenges....I see the line up in the tunnel and look at some inferior stature wise.....some look puny. Is it too much to expect an improvement in definition to help with some of these problems. it strikes me they have the dedication of a meter reader( no disrespect to meter readers) if I was in their shoes I would prepare my self so I wouldn't get shoved around, I know it's not just physique, but it helps.i would be working morning, noon & night to put myself about. Fair play for posting something comprised completely of conjecture and pure speculation. So, what you're saying is that the more money you earn, the stronger you should be? You do realise football is much more than just a physical battle, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 11 minutes ago, Milfner said: Fair play for posting something comprised completely of conjecture and pure speculation. So, what you're saying is that the more money you earn, the stronger you should be? You do realise football is much more than just a physical battle, right? Fair play for posting something comprised completely of conjecture and pure speculation. You do get irony, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milfner Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: Fair play for posting something comprised completely of conjecture and pure speculation. You do get irony, right? Tbh I misread that part. However, the drivel about the players not dedicating themselves because of money, physical stature, even a comparison to himself not being shoved about. It's just unfounded and worn out nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Certainly a well used and often misplaced argument. we can agree on that. Not neccessarily what TRO was getting at though I felt. It's just frustrating that we havent really had anyone on the pitch and certainly in midfield who can properly compete and impose themselves on a game since Petrov. Delph maybe? Gana when he had a good day? While I think of it Delph should be a shining example for them to be honest. He's a bit dirty at times but after being a bit lightweight and having his injury woes in his younger days he basically manned up for want of a better phrase. The reasons why professional footballers and gymnasts/boxers etc will have varying physiques are vast. The question of why we have such a powderpuff midfield (Which Jedinak walks into even with his limitations) is pretty valid in my eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Milfner said: Fair play for posting something comprised completely of conjecture and pure speculation. So, what you're saying is that the more money you earn, the stronger you should be? You do realise football is much more than just a physical battle, right? Congratulations, for completely misreading the point of my post. if its conjecture or speculation, how does that feature as fair play in your opposition of it, can't really reconcile that.....back to the point,its just my opinion, not fact. no I'm not saying the money you earn, equals the stronger you should be, where have you concocted that up from I am unsure. Football is more than just a physical battle, but to ignore it ,is just as bad as over stating it. My point was, which I am loosing the will to make....if players are quite obviously losing out through the lack of physical prowess. I.e consistently being shoved off the ball, with no redress, it may be time to take the law in to your own hands and get shaped up down the gym.....that may not fix it, it may be mental, but it may help a player to deal with it. Its called helping yourself stay in a lucrative job. This player had failed to do that imo. Edited December 19, 2016 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 8 hours ago, dukes said: Yes, the same goes for Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo and Messi I'm sorry, what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Woodytom said: I'm sorry, what? I don't even know myself now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 hours ago, dukes said: I don't even know myself now. could it have been inebriation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) On 12/17/2016 at 17:56, DCJonah said: I don't see many just relying on stats. Watch the game and use stats to support that view. It clearly paints the picture that he's absolutely garbage right now. Every player on both sides (who played 90 mins) had more touches. The Norwich left back attempted more passes. To argue that's down to tactics is laughable IMO, and seems the type of blind defence we used to see of Westwood in the past. your last sentence is stupid if you read my posts about how i have 0 opinion on him as i havent watched enough games to form one. But i have major problems how youre using passing stats and touch stats in a throwaway post e.g. obviously ayew is going to have more touches as thats his game. and passing stats...its soooooooooo easy to get 5 passes from 1 cb -> dm -> cb -> dm -> cb -> lb -> dm -> cb -> dm -> cb. etc in a possession sequence. to the point where passing stats is irrelevant. but this is important to you?! (theres going to be a TON of variance over 90 min sample on those stats) put it this way...anyone whos doing semi analytics and looking at stats will never look at the stats youre using because theyre literally pointless by themselves Edited December 22, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I like him, I think he is pretty good. Honest. Please don't shout at me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 12 hours ago, gharperr said: your last sentence is stupid if you read my posts about how i have 0 opinion on him as i havent watched enough games to form one. But i have major problems how youre using passing stats and touch stats in a throwaway post e.g. obviously ayew is going to have more touches as thats his game. and passing stats...its soooooooooo easy to get 5 passes from 1 cb -> dm -> cb -> dm -> cb -> lb -> dm -> cb -> dm -> cb. etc in a possession sequence. to the point where passing stats is irrelevant. but this is important to you?! (theres going to be a TON of variance over 90 min sample on those stats) put it this way...anyone whos doing semi analytics and looking at stats will never look at the stats youre using because theyre literally pointless by themselves Er.. that's why I've said stats support what you see. Never have I said use those stats and nothing else. Passing stats are irrelevant? You seem to be coming up with new ways to defend the abysmal performance. If it's so easy to make lots of passes as you claim, then why is it that Westwood in this game was the worst of the worst? Ayews game is to have more touches? I'd say it's easier to get involved in the game from cm than out wide. Hence why Jedinak had loads more touches than ayew. And not for the first time, every single player on both teams who completed the whole game had more touches than Westwood. Is it all their games also? Just not Westwood? Shame for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Brilliant Westwood, whose passing ability has always been highlighted by those that rate him is now being defended by a claim that passing stats dont mean anything Come on villa talk, it's about time we all came together and said as one: 'Westwood is **** garbage' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Look, this is not a defence of Westwood over but passing percentage stats over a single game, unless remarkable in some way, are not a very good way to judge a players ability. There are too many variables. When you're using that as the basis for a debate you've truly hit rock bottom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 23, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Westwood, whose passing ability has always been highlighted by those that rate him is now being defended by a claim that passing stats dont mean anything Except the person criticising the stats has explicitly said he's not defending Westwood. Quote i have 0 opinion on him as i havent watched enough games to form one Edited December 23, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Look, this is not a defence of Westwood over but passing percentage stats over a single game, unless remarkable in some way, are not a very good way to judge a players ability. There are too many variables. When you're using that as the basis for a debate you've truly hit rock bottom. Agreed. But I think the amount of passes he attempts is a good indication of his complete lack of involvement in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Mr Mumbles at Wolveszzz could redeem himself with a cheeky bid for our "dynamic" midfielder 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) On 12/23/2016 at 17:46, DCJonah said: Er.. that's why I've said stats support what you see. Never have I said use those stats and nothing else. Passing stats are irrelevant? You seem to be coming up with new ways to defend the abysmal performance. If it's so easy to make lots of passes as you claim, then why is it that Westwood in this game was the worst of the worst? read my posts. answered already. c'mon? (also you and woodytom seem to be thinking im defending/attacking his performence...not doing any of that.) Ayews game is to have more touches? I'd say it's easier to get involved in the game from cm than out wide. Hence why Jedinak had loads more touches than ayew. And not for the first time, every single player on both teams who completed the whole game had more touches than Westwood. Is it all their games also? Just not Westwood? Shame for him. read my posts. answered already. c'mon? im going to guess youre very very new to using stats in football. Youre easily using some of the most poiintless stats to be used in analytical world. Especially over 90min sample @woodytom....as he didnt bother to reply when he got shown up...i do not give a fk how westwood is doing. i have problem with the stats used. I will have same problem with stats used if they used them in positive way. (Althogh iirc, passing stats in past was mostly to show it wasnt always backwards or whatever you guys tried to claim) Edited December 25, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Here we go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbcuk Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Unfortunately he starts tonight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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