Relegation

[AvfcRigo82]

Just having a think there about the squad we would have right now if we take all of Lamberts signings out for a moment.

................. Given ...............

............... Marshall ..............

Hutton - Collins - Dunne - Warnock

Lihaj - Baker - Clark - Stevens

Albrighton - Ireland - Makoun - N'Zogbia

......Herd - Delph - Bannan - Holman .....

............. Agbonlahor - Bent..............

............ Delfouneso - Weimann .................

Does anyone realistically think we would be any further in the league than we are now? If you ask me we would be 20th and possible playing catch up by now too! (thats before suspensions or injuries happen!) We would be well and extremely **** IMO.

.

[lexicon]

That team still has enough about it to finish low-mid table, 15th or so, IMO.

[LondonLax]

Just having a think there about the squad we would have right now if we take all of Lamberts signings out for a moment.

................. Given ...............

............... Marshall ..............

Hutton - Collins - Dunne - Warnock

Lihaj - Baker - Clark - Stevens

Albrighton - Ireland - Makoun - N'Zogbia

......Herd - Delph - Bannan - Holman .....

............. Agbonlahor - Bent..............

............ Delfouneso - Weimann .................

Does anyone realistically think we would be any further in the league than we are now? If you ask me we would be 20th and possible playing catch up by now too! (thats before suspensions or injuries happen!) We would be well and extremely **** IMO.

.

I think we would probably be in a pretty similar position, if not slightly higher.

McLeish was comfortably mid table with roughly that squad at this stage last season. We dropped like a stone once Bent, Petrov and Dunne got long term injuries, that was the spine of the team.

The key is keeping Bent fit and firing whilst remaining tight at the back. We are doing the exact opposite of that this season.

[markavfc40]

Whilst we are still trying to figure our selves out we need to bring in 'experience' with 'quality'...

This just about sums it up.

I think bringing in 2 or 3 quality players with experience is essential in January. A few seem to be suggesting the experience isn't so important but for me it is. Lambert signings so far have been decent but none have exactly hit the ground running and have been very inconsistent. Now there are obviously valid reasons for this - in Lowton, Westwoods, Bennetts case it is simply a lack of experience at anything like this level and with Vlaar, Al Ahmadi, Benteke and Holman it is adjusting to a new country and a far tougher league than where they have come from.

Come January we won't have the luxury of saying we can make signings who will most likely take time to settle/adjust/get up to speed with playing in the Premier League. By then I expect us to be in just as deep trouble as we are now the only difference being there will be a lot less games left to get out of it.

What we'll need is players of proven quality that are used to playing in this league that can hit the ground running and make an instant impact similar to what Bent did in 2011 when we again found ourselves in trouble. As we found then though players who can make that kind of impact are going to cost you. I just hope for all our sakes Lerner is prepared to again spend big on fees and wages otherwise I fear this season we will drop.

[dudevillaisnice]

....we're gonna be relegated arnt we.

a few weeks ago I would've laughed at the comment but now as each game goes by and the lack of points I must say I am starting to get worried.

Bent doesn't seem in favour either and last time we were were in a similar position he helped us get out of it.

I understand manager's need time and i'm still willing to do so (for now atleast) but teams at the bottom are starting to pick up points, we are not and that is worrying.

[keefa3011]

Yeah, but the teams at the bottom have just played each other recently. After the Arsenal game is where we really need to start picking up points. Home to Reading, away to QPR and then home to Stoke are the points gained that we need to base our survival chances on, not against Man Utd or Man City, or even Arsenal. Points against those teams are a bonus if you get them when you're a team in the bottom half.

If we still only have a meagre points total going into the Liverpool and Chelsea games, then I will start to worry, but as I've said previously, I believe we will improve this season, unlike last season where we were only going to get worse.

[romavillan]

i think we will get 6-8 points out the next 4 games, which won't have us sitting pretty but we'll be out of the bottom three, i reckon 4 or 5 clubs won't do better than a point a game so things will probabaly look better in a few weeks.

PL has said we are down to the bare bones on a coupel of occasions already so i think we can expect new faces in january. on the subject of experience/youth, if they've been pullin gup trees all season long in another league and look amazing i'd take the punt seeing as compared to buying from teh prem in january we can probably get 3 from abroad for the price of 1 in the prem. which has a knock on with teh wages too.

keep the faith, we all thought we might get 0 points from a run of united, city and arsenal. we could have beaten united to be fair, at city they had 2 deflected goals and a non-existent penalty in the 5 so we should be due some luck after the united game too. i still think we'll finish around the 50 point mark and be well safe.

[VillaCas]

Lambert took over a team that was full of overpaid, mediocre players and was sinking fast

Anyone with any knowledge of football would know that he wouldn't be able to turn a situation like this around over night. The first half of the season has inevitably been about moving out the rubbish, bringing in young, hungry talent at the right price and sifting through the options to find the right formula.

For me he is doing everything I had hoped - bringing in good young players, transforming the mindset of the club and playing good, positive football. Realistically we wern't set up to make a roaring start to the season and most of us didnt expect that we would be taking points from MU, MC and Arsenal. The run of 8 games after Arsenal is where I expect us to begin to show our full potential and slowly move away from the danger zone. A few additional signings (and departures) in the January window will start to mould the team into the kind of unit I'm sure Lambert will have in mind

I wasn't over impressed with Houllier and thought that McL was a disaster from day one but if we back PL then i beleive that 12-18 months from now we will be back in the top half of the table challenging for Europa Cup places.

We really need to pull together now - if we become the sort of club that replaces managers every 10 or 11 games we would deserve to struggle

[markavfc40]

i still think we'll finish around the 50 point mark and be well safe.

Seriously? I really can't see us taking 41 points from 26 games. That's 1.6 points a game and we haven't had anything like that kind of points per game ratio since the days of O'Neill.

I think we'll do well to get around 40-43 points which would see us safe and as things stand now I'd be happy with that. I'm not happy saying it and it is so disheartening when I think how low my realistic expectations are for this club now. It is only 3 years ago that we were concerned with the results Spurs/Arsenal/Liverpool were getting now it is Reading, QPR, Southampton, Wigan, Norwich. Three years that seem like a lifetime ago. It is shocking how quick the fortunes of this great club have turned around.

[keefa3011]

It was always unsustainable, though. I'd rather have a club to support that is run within it's means than "do a Portsmouth or Leeds". I am a lot happier with this approach, and although I'd be hugely disappointed with relegation, providing the signs are there that show we will improve, I think we have to stick with Lambert. At least with him we can see a plan evolving, unlike under the bumbling idiot last season.

[Morpheus]

Actually I have, I just recognise that experience doesn't always mean good decision making and being calm.

FFS it was us playing well that made Man United look poor! This is what I mean about the anti-Villa position. People just don't want to admit that we might have played well for a period of the game.

As I said, God knows how some on here would cope if we were actually successful.

Are you Redknapp's agent?

Nope, quality is all we need. Experience would be a nice bonus but quality must come first. If we get that we'll be fine.

How on Earth can you make that comparison? We had a different squad last season and so did everyone else. The comparison is invalid.

Lowton's been ok and unfortunately we haven't got to see much of Bennett due to an unfair sending off and then an injury.

Why does KEA have to be Petrov's replacement? We were light in midfield even before Petrov's illness.

I'm not dancing around the issues at all.

We're where we are now because funnily enough it takes more than just a couple of months for things to start clicking when you've had the kind of change we had. New players, new manager, new staff and a new playing style. IT TAKES TIME.

Injuries and poor officiating haven't helped though but then again I never expect us to not get constantly **** over by the refs and injuries.

I have already admitted that we played well against Man U in the first half but as stated before united were also very poor and upped their game in the second half. Its not an 'Anti-Villa' position when there is an admittance that we played well its just that being so biased has clouded your judgement out of any independent views.

No i'm not Redknapp's agent but i wish i was.

Again we need both quality and experience. Question. Barring injury, who would you rather have partnering Vlaar in our defence, Clark or Kompany? Both internationals and both quality players but one has more experience than the other.

The comparison i made concerning where we were last year without Lambert's signings isn't invalid at all. We were higher in the table without Lambert's signings and consequently it is exactly nail on the head which you can't answer because it proves my point and thats exactly what i mean by you not answering the question directly.

Ok then lets say that KEA wasn't Petrov's replacement. He has still been a poor signing has he not when we could have signed Diame on a free and indeed Adam, who is now playing very well at Stoke. Decent experienced Premiership quality and both of whom would have walked straight into our midfield. If your saying that KEA was signed only as a squad player then we already had Delph, Herd, Bannan, Holman, Ireland and maybe even Clark. So we didn't need another squad player in midfield, we actually needed a player who was better than what we already had and could go straight into the first team to affect games. KEA was indeed drafted into the first team but based on his performances, he has been a poor signing and we've had to blood Westwood probably a tad too soon.

I understand that managers need time to build their squads and i agree that Lambert has had to restructure the squad but he has got the balance of what was badly needed now and what was required to rebuild the club over the next few seasons wrong. What we needed was a juxtaposition of players. Experienced Premiership quality to go directly into the first team to cover our exposed weaknesses such as Ollson at LB, and both Diame and Adam for the centre of our midfield. I also would have kept Cuellar and played him alongside Vlaar. I would also have enquired about Berbatov to play in behind Bent and yes i do understand that Berbatov's wages would have been high. Even without Berbatov, with those players in our team now we would be a lot more solid allowing Lambert the luxury of introducing the likes of Benteke and Westwood with less pressure on them to hit the ground running.

[Keyblade]

Lambert took over a team that was full of overpaid, mediocre players and was sinking fast

Anyone with any knowledge of football would know that he wouldn't be able to turn a situation like this around over night. The first half of the season has inevitably been about moving out the rubbish, bringing in young, hungry talent at the right price and sifting through the options to find the right formula.

For me he is doing everything I had hoped - bringing in good young players, transforming the mindset of the club and playing good, positive football. Realistically we wern't set up to make a roaring start to the season and most of us didnt expect that we would be taking points from MU, MC and Arsenal. The run of 8 games after Arsenal is where I expect us to begin to show our full potential and slowly move away from the danger zone. A few additional signings (and departures) in the January window will start to mould the team into the kind of unit I'm sure Lambert will have in mind

I wasn't over impressed with Houllier and thought that McL was a disaster from day one but if we back PL then i beleive that 12-18 months from now we will be back in the top half of the table challenging for Europa Cup places.

We really need to pull together now - if we become the sort of club that replaces managers every 10 or 11 games we would deserve to struggle

Fully agree. Excellent post. PL has done everything we had hoped would be done after the shambles of last season.

Get rid of last season's terrible back 4 - Check:Sold Collins and froze out Hutton + Warnock

Scout Europe for inexpensive gems - Check: Vlaar has been immense since joining us for a meagre ~£3M. Not to mention Benteke and KEA

Bring in young players, hungry to play for our shirt - Check: Westwood, Lowton, Benteke, and Bennett all 21 and under and looking decent so far despite the results

Play attacking football - Check: The most glaring one after last season. Gone are the days where we sit back on 1-0 deficits. We go for the win each and every time, no matter the opposition.

Take the cups seriously - Check: We're in the last 8 of the LC, beating City on their own patch along the way.

Despite the results so far, I'm very satisfied with the job PL has done.

[keefa3011]

You can't blame Lambert for Cuellar, surely?

Anyway, the fact is that we don't know the budget constraints that Lambert is working to. If these constraints mean that he can't sign players such as Diame, Adam, Berbatov until he gets rid of Warnock, Dunne, Hutton and Bent, then what's he to do? The players he has signed will be on an awful lot less salary wise than those you repeatedly name.

[Morpheus]

and although I'd be hugely disappointed with relegation, providing the signs are there that show we will improve, I think we have to stick with Lambert.

So relegation is acceptable to you as long as we put in a couple of good performances.

[keefa3011]

I think for the future of the club, yes. Of course I'd be gutted, but I don't think blaming the manager when the whole club was in disarray when he came in is the way to go.

We have a very bright young manager who has the potential to build something here, and if we did get relegated, I'd give him at least 1 season in the Championship to see what he can do.

[Risso]

I think for the future of the club, yes. Of course I'd be gutted, but I don't think blaming the manager when the whole club was in disarray when he came in is the way to go.

We have a very bright young manager who has the potential to build something here, and if we did get relegated, I'd give him at least 1 season in the Championship to see what he can do.

Take us down to League 1 I expect.

[Morpheus]

You can't blame Lambert for Cuellar, surely?

Anyway, the fact is that we don't know the budget constraints that Lambert is working to. If these constraints mean that he can't sign players such as Diame, Adam, Berbatov until he gets rid of Warnock, Dunne, Hutton and Bent, then what's he to do? The players he has signed will be on an awful lot less salary wise than those you repeatedly name.

Not exactly blaming him but we did resign Guzan.

Diame was on a free and Adam fetched 3.5m-5m while we paid 2.5m for KEA. Not really much of a difference there. The wages issue has also been largely dealt with but as stated in my last post i do understand that Berbatov's wages would have been high.

[Morpheus]

I think for the future of the club, yes. Of course I'd be gutted, but I don't think blaming the manager when the whole club was in disarray when he came in is the way to go.

We have a very bright young manager who has the potential to build something here, and if we did get relegated, I'd give him at least 1 season in the Championship to see what he can do.

I do see where you are coming from and there is the argument that it didn't do Newcastle any harm but this is not the season to be relegated with the increase in TV revenue on the way. It can so easily be avoided though with the right investment and signings this season while still allowing the club to be re-structured and build around a more solid team next season.

[jacketspuds]

_{I hope it's not just a case of Lerner telling PL that he has to bring in cheap players, which means little or no Premiership experience. Yes MON spunked a load of money on players with the experience but it got results, and left us in a shit financial position. It's about balance and right now I don't think we have that. Come January I expect the likes of Ireland, Bent, CNZ, Dunne, Hutton and Warnock to all be in the shop window. It may lower our wage bill and make our books look great but it will also eradicate the majority of remaining players with experience in the squad, regardless of whether people think some are crap or not.}

_{I'm a little worried.}

[Keyblade]

Take us down to League 1 I expect.

Except, his recent record shows that he can do the exact opposite.