Relegation

[smetrov]

People keep going on about quality. Have West Ham got a much better squad than us? Have WBA? We should not be in this position with the fixtures we have had and players we have got. Or to put it another way, we should have done a LOT better. I'm not getting on Lambert's back (yet) but I'm sick of reading about what we need in January like a couple of signings will miraculously turn us into world beaters. There is one and one person only who can turn this around and that is Paul Lambert. He has to get this squad into a system or whatever that wins games. I dont care if its pretty or not but he clearly isnt getting the best out of the players. Look at WBA, look at West Ham. Mediocre squads on paper yet are beating most who face them. Ask yourself why that it is?

Quality, confidence and all the rest of the meaningless clichés are just kop-outs.

TBH - From Foster through to Shane Long - the WBA squad wipes the floor with ours.

[Mantis]

Sorry no. Man U were very poor in the first half which contributed to our performance. It was no fluke in the second half that when they started to play we lost the game from being two up. It actually put it into perspective yesterday how poor Man U were in the first half and Ferguson did allude to that in his post match interview.

Ah the old VT anti-Villa position. If we're playing well it's merely that the opposition are playing badly yet if we do badly it's not because the opposition are playing well but because we're shit.

The second decision was correct and it's just sour grapes to say otherwise. They didn't need any help from the linesman to beat us as they were much the better team.

It wasn't correct at all. I get the impression that if it was the other way around you'd be saying how we got lucky.

Who knows? They were 1-0 up at that point and I agree would probably have still beaten us but us getting something out of the game wasn't out of the question until those two ridiculous penalty decisions.

You still haven't answered the point i made concerning the experience v quality debate so i will ask it again. If you feel Lambert has signed the right players why do we still need to buy quality to get us out of the current position we're in?

I already did answer it. On the whole I feel Lambert has bought the right players but there is still work to be done.

I also never said it would be simple to change our current plight. What i am saying is that by bringing in Redknapp, he would, as at Spuds, have an instant impact on our team by being able to attract the better player to our club and getting us organized. If he does go to QPR he will get them safe and i am in no doubt of that. Currently i have no faith in Lambert whatsoever to have the same impact in January through these new signings you place your faith in.

How can you be so sure Redknapp would have an instant impact and be a success? He hasn't been a success in every job he's been at. Just because he was a success at Spurs doesn't mean he'd be a success here.

Besides, we need to rebuild and he isn't the man to do it.

No he didn't sack McLeish when our football was poor but then again McLeish never had us in the bottom three.

So? We finished just a couple of points above the bottom three at the end of the season and that's what counts. We slipped into the bottom three in 10/11 yet still finished 9th. In 11/12 we never once entered the bottom three yet finished 16th. Just goes to show that what matters is where you finish and not where you are in between or how bad your start is or whatever.

Totally disagree. Clark has already proven at WBA how good his organizational skills are and on the whole Lambert has spent his budget poorly due to getting the balance of player wrong.

Clark has the benefit of going into a club with continuity and a good set up behind the scenes. Lambert didn't have that.

[markavfc40]

We should not be in this position with the fixtures we have had and players we have got.

With the players we have got? I fail to see how you can say that. I'm not even sure how good most of our players are because quite simply I haven't seen enough of them at this level either for us or any other team.

Stevens, Lowton Clark, Bannan, Weimann, Bennett, Baker, Westwood, Lichaj, Delph, Herd won't have started many more than a 100 top flight games between. Throw in Holman, Al Ahmadi, Vlaar and Benteke who have come from far inferior leagues then I fail to see how we can judge how good this side should be.

The only players who have proven themselves in this division who have played this season are Ireland, Gabby and Bent.

I see us at the moment as at best a team full of unknown quantities who may well develop into a decent side or at worst a team lacking in known quality that won't improve to the level required to compete consistently at this level.

[R.Bear]

TBH - From Foster through to Shane Long - the WBA squad wipes the floor with ours.

The WBA that beat Chelsea yesterday...

B Myhill

J Olsson

L Ridgewell

B Jones

G Tamas

C Yacob

J Morrison

Y Mulumbu

Z Gera

S Long

P Odemwingie

That team "wipes the floor" with ours does it? Give me a break. Something is intrinsically wrong with our team/manager/club whatever that we constantly under-perform. And I dont mean Liverpool under-perform. I mean in the relegation zone in November. It's ridiculous.

[KjParton]

So whats the bet in the next week this thread reaches 100 pages because everyone panics that we've lost heavily to City and thinks we're going down.

hmm looks like I underestimated the amount of pages - looks like its going to be way over 100!

[Mantis]

It seems like there's been something rotten at Villa for quite some time but we all knew it would get worse before it got better.

[smetrov]

The WBA that beat Chelsea yesterday...

B Myhill

J Olsson

L Ridgewell

B Jones

G Tamas

C Yacob

J Morrison

Y Mulumbu

Z Gera

S Long

P Odemwingie

That team "wipes the floor" with ours does it? Give me a break. Something is intrinsically wrong with our team/manager/club whatever that we constantly under-perform. And I dont mean Liverpool under-perform. I mean in the relegation zone in November. It's ridiculous.

Id have Odemwingie \ Long over our current strikers

I d take Olson over Clark

Id take Morrison over Bannan

I won't profess to know the other WBA players that well. But at this point in time players for player the WBA squad is better than ours. They have defenders who defend, and strikers that score.

[Morpheus]

Ah the old VT anti-Villa position. If we're playing well it's merely that the opposition are playing badly yet if we do badly it's not because the opposition are playing well but because we're shit.

It wasn't correct at all. I get the impression that if it was the other way around you'd be saying how we got lucky.

Who knows? They were 1-0 up at that point and I agree would probably have still beaten us but us getting something out of the game wasn't out of the question until those two ridiculous penalty decisions.

I already did answer it. On the whole I feel Lambert has bought the right players but there is still work to be done.

How can you be so sure Redknapp would have an instant impact and be a success? He hasn't been a success in every job he's been at. Just because he was a success at Spurs doesn't mean he'd be a success here.

Besides, we need to rebuild and he isn't the man to do it.

So? We finished just a couple of points above the bottom three at the end of the season and that's what counts. We slipped into the bottom three in 10/11 yet still finished 9th. In 11/12 we never once entered the bottom three yet finished 16th. Just goes to show that what matters is where you finish and not where you are in between or how bad your start is or whatever.

Clark has the benefit of going into a club with continuity and a good set up behind the scenes. Lambert didn't have that.

Its not an 'anti-Villa position.'Are you saying Man U played well in that first half? They did however perform in the second half and we couldn't deal with it and not because 'we're shit!'

The second decision was correct and if it had been us who were turned down for that penalty appeal then you would have blamed the ref for that and used it as another excuse.

No you still haven't answered the question. If we had purchased the right players why do we still need to strengthen their positions in particular midfield, and defence?

No i can't absolutely for sure say that Redknapp would turn us around but he has a record of doing exactly that and why is he being so heavily linked with the job at QPR? It wouldn't be because they need a manager to do exactly what we need would it? How do you know Redknapp couldn't rebuild us? I think thats a comment to suit your debate rather than having any evidence behind it.

You haven't answered the point about Mcleish either and the question is the same. If McLeish had managed to get us into the bottom three do you not think it would have pushed Lerner into pulling the trigger sooner. Of course it would.

As far as Clark is concerned you haven't answered the question again. Has he or has he not got WBA more organised and harder to beat which was my original point?

[Stevo985]

I was against Lambert from the start and it is documented on here as being so. I have always rated Clarke and yes out of those three Clarke would have been my choice and I don't give a toss whether you think it's bullshit or not.

Well they were all available.

So surely you must have touted Clarke as a replacement for McLeish?

[Morpheus]

How? Experience means nothing if a player hasn't got the quality.

I also don't think there's a real difference i

How have you always rated Clarke? WBA was his first managerial appointment. Unless you rated his skills as a #2, which would be irrelevant.

How would his skills as a number 2 be irrelevant. Would you say the same thing about the 'special one?' Clark was highly thought of at all of his previous clubs and there was a reason for that as we can now see at WBA.

[Morpheus]

Some comical clearing in the woodss on here.

Some comical clearing in the woodss on here.

There certainly are.

[Mantis]

Its not an 'anti-Villa position.'Are you saying Man U played well in that first half? They did however perform in the second half and we couldn't deal with it and not because 'we're shit!'

Of course it is. Whichever makes Villa look worse is the position people always adopt.

They didn't play well becuase we made them look poor. We were brilliant for a lot of that game.

The second decision was correct and if it had been us who were turned down for that penalty appeal then you would have blamed the ref for that and used it as another excuse.

It wasn't correct at all, it just looks a bit less dodgy due to how ridiculous the first decision was.

Nope, not at all.

No you still haven't answered the question. If we had purchased the right players why do we still need to strengthen their positions in particular midfield, and defence?

I've answered it twice now. We still need to strengthen because our problems couldn't all be fixed in one window.

No i can't absolutely for sure say that Redknapp would turn us around but he has a record of doing exactly that and why is he being so heavily linked with the job at QPR? It wouldn't be because they need a manager to do exactly what we need would it? How do you know Redknapp couldn't rebuild us? I think thats a comment to suit your debate rather than having any evidence behind it.

The media are very pro-Redknapp and surprise surprise they're the ones linking him to the job. That can't be used as a reason why he would have an instant impact here.

We need someone who can come in and build a dynasty here as well as reshaping the club from the boring kick and rush team that only ever buys from Britain into a team that plays progressive football and scouts abroad like most other clubs in this league do these days.

You haven't answered the point about Mcleish either and the question is the same. If McLeish had managed to get us into the bottom three do you not think it would have pushed Lerner into pulling the trigger sooner. Of course it would.

Yes but McLeish never had that much support and had us playing shit football even when we won. There have been some signs that we could be a decent team if Lambert can get it right. That and the fact that Lerner is probably tired of the constant managerial changes at Villa.

As far as Clark is concerned you haven't answered the question again. Has he or has he not got WBA more organised and harder to beat which was my original point?

I keep answering your questions but you keep on ignoring them because they're not the answers you want. Clarke has done well at West Brom but you can't transfer that to doing well at Villa because it's a completely different set of circumstances.

[Morpheus]

Well they were all available.

So surely you must have touted Clarke as a replacement for McLeish?

No i wanted Jol who is also doing quite well i believe.

[Keyblade]

Maybe not irrelevant, but more like you probably weren't familiar with his managerial skills since all of his work was behind the scenes. You can't seriously be saying you preferred somebody who never managed a football clubto someone who got his team promoted twice in a row followed by a comfortable mid table PL finish?

[Mantis]

No i wanted Jol who is also doing quite well i believe.

I rate Jol but funny you should mention him.

Take a look at this article and see what jumps out, particularly with regards to Fulham and the table

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15716030

[Morpheus]

Of course it is. Whichever makes Villa look worse is the position people always adopt.

They didn't play well becuase we made them look poor. We were brilliant for a lot of that game.

It wasn't correct at all, it just looks a bit less dodgy due to how ridiculous the first decision was.

Nope, not at all.

I've answered it twice now. We still need to strengthen because our problems couldn't all be fixed in one window.

The media are very pro-Redknapp and surprise surprise they're the ones linking him to the job. That can't be used as a reason why he would have an instant impact here.

We need someone who can come in and build a dynasty here as well as reshaping the club from the boring kick and rush team that only ever buys from Britain into a team that plays progressive football and scouts abroad like most other clubs in this league do these days.

Yes but McLeish never had that much support and had us playing shit football even when we won. There have been some signs that we could be a decent team if Lambert can get it right. That and the fact that Lerner is probably tired of the constant managerial changes at Villa.

I keep answering your questions but you keep on ignoring them because they're not the answers you want. Clarke has done well at West Brom but you can't transfer that to doing well at Villa because it's a completely different set of circumstances.

No you actually keep deflecting the questions because you can't answer them directly in a manner that you want.

If it was our performance in the first half that made United play so badly why were they able to score three in the second half? Where we that **** terrible in the second half?

If we had been disallowed the second penalty under the same circumstances would you have accepted it as a good decision?

If Lambert has signed the right players why do we still need strengthening in those specific positions?

As far as Redknapp goes it won't be the media who chooses the next manager at QPR it will be the board at QPR and Redknapp's teams always play good progressive football.

I will ask it again. If Mcleish had managed to push us into the bottom three would Lerner have sacked him sooner?

Finally has Clarke at WBA made them more organized and harder to beat or is their current position just a fluke of nature?

[Morpheus]

I rate Jol but funny you should mention him.

Take a look at this article and see what jumps out, particularly with regards to Fulham and the table

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/15716030

Nothing current.

[Oaks]

I have to say im not overly worried just. We've played 8 of the top half and 4 of the bottom half, with only 1 of the bottom half at home. In fact we've only played 2 teams outside the current top 5 teams at home, so that's 12 winnable home games to come. That's where our bulk of our points will come. I think with the amount of home games, and the fixtures being not to kind.

But if we don't double our points total in the next 5 games, i must admit we could be in serious trouble.

We need an experienced midfielder, and maybe Richard Dunne to have a final say.

[Swerbs]

The quality and experience of players in our team at the moment is the reason why we are in the relegation zone, they may possibly come good but right now Lambert needs to sign quality + experience.

[The_Lions_Roar]

The defence needs sorting as a priority, and I hate to say this but that may involve getting Given, Dunne, Hutton & Warnock back into the side.

Hutton and warnock are big no no's. Given and dunne need to be in that side, as does bent. This are our 3 most experienced players. I'm all for giving youth a chance but it needs to be surrounded by experience. At the moment it isn't.