Relegation

[AXD]

Yes, Lambert's biggest failing this season has been his inability to get Darren Bent involved. 

How many times did he get us points last season ? ( quite a few I should think )

And I remember he got us the goal against WBA at VP earlier this season and the free kick Vs West Ham last week.Also don't forget that he hardly plays now, so you can't expect a top performance from a player that only plays once a month.I say we should play him reguarly and his performances will get better still.

I think he will get more opportunities than just once a month. what if something happens to Benteke? (injury, suspension, tired,...) with bent we have a valuable replacement who can still play with Weimann and Gabby wide. It'll just be different way of passing. other than Bent we have no alternatives up front (Bowery is far from ready) unless we play an ordinary 4-4-2 with Gabby and Weimann but then we lack wings, only Nzogbia can play there as albrighton is nowhere to be found lately.

I don't even see a reason to sell bent at the end of the season if we stay up. we won't get that much money anyway (apart from cutting our wages), but he can still add something next season of Lambert gives him more chances.

[vandaq]

Perhaps, but I have to ask if someone has any idea or knows more to the darren bent situation. Is he any happy at all? Do he want to stay? I have seen som tweets and he looking forward to the game but you would think he wants to get out of here since he has played so little this season. Anyone knows, it might have been written here but it`s kinda hard to keep track of everything

[Dodgyknees]

besides wich our issue has not been in acoring goals, it has been in conceding tham

That's quite an extraordinary view to have, if you don't mind me saying so.

We have scored 25 goals in 26 games, worse than all but two teams in the premier league - Norwich who also have 25 and QPR who have 19. It is the combination of scoring so few goals and conceding so many that has put is in such a perilous position. Frankly, our goal-scoring record is pathetic. So far it is as bad as last season and further back in time it is the worst for many a long year

There seems little prospect of the defence getting much better, particularly since Lambert did nothing to strengthen the squad in that respect in January. Some might argue we have more chance of improving our goal-scoring ratio, particularly when you think we have a player in the ranks who, when he plays well and is supported effectively by his fellow midfielders and forwards, scores 1 in every 2 games. He also has a proven track record at getting our club out of a relegation hole.

I recognise a lot of fans don't like Bent, and I suspect Lambert doesn't either, but sometimes getting results is about playing players who are difficult rather than just having a bunch of likeable lads on the pitch.

It's a lack of goals from the rest of the pitch that is the problem. We get a good return from the strikers.

A world class player like Bannan should be on double figures.

Seriously though, we need goals from midfield and defence too.

[briny_ear]

 

besides wich our issue has not been in acoring goals, it has been in conceding tham

That's quite an extraordinary view to have, if you don't mind me saying so.

We have scored 25 goals in 26 games, worse than all but two teams in the premier league - Norwich who also have 25 and QPR who have 19. It is the combination of scoring so few goals and conceding so many that has put is in such a perilous position. Frankly, our goal-scoring record is pathetic. So far it is as bad as last season and further back in time it is the worst for many a long year

There seems little prospect of the defence getting much better, particularly since Lambert did nothing to strengthen the squad in that respect in January. Some might argue we have more chance of improving our goal-scoring ratio, particularly when you think we have a player in the ranks who, when he plays well and is supported effectively by his fellow midfielders and forwards, scores 1 in every 2 games. He also has a proven track record at getting our club out of a relegation hole.

I recognise a lot of fans don't like Bent, and I suspect Lambert doesn't either, but sometimes getting results is about playing players who are difficult rather than just having a bunch of likeable lads on the pitch.

It's a lack of goals from the rest of the pitch that is the problem. We get a good return from the strikers.

A world class player like Bannan should be on double figures.

Seriously though, we need goals from midfield and defence too.

We've had a good return from Benteke but Weimann 4, Gabby 3 and Bent 2 (in the league) isn't too clever. And Benteke's league form has been a bit stop-go - his 11 goals came like this: 10000100001002000101121.

 

We just have to hope those last four matches show how he will be scoring for the rest of the season, because we don't seem likely to get too many goals from elsewhere. I don't think we can be happy with our goal-scoring performance in any respect, although obviously Benteke's goals are potentially a season-saving bonus for us.

 

(BTW I wasn't quite sure how to read 

A world class player like Bannan

)

[Baker]

I hear talk about one more "must win" game and I am going to request Tanser put in an electric shock feature on this forum.

[LondonLax]

If N'Zogbia could start scoring from open play and if the CBs would occasionally score from corners we might be ok but we have been totally relying on the strikers for our goals and it's not been enough.

[Morpheus]

How many goals have come from midfield this season?

[Grogan_Avfc]

Nzogbias FK v west ham

El ahmadi v everton

Erm...

[Grogan_Avfc]

Add to that

Holman v qpr

Clark v Newcastle

Lowton v swansea.

So 3 from midfield, 2 from defence. Pathetic.

[NeilS]

Yep, the rest of the team need to start weighing in with their fair share of goals, it is not good enough to rely on Benteke to score. You would think the focal point of Benteke would draw defenders and create space for others to profit from. We need to midfield to improve drastically for us to stand a chance of staying up. Hopefully N'Zogbia can hit his Wigan form from a couple of years ago, as i can't see too many others from the midfield stepping up to do the business.

[TRO]

midfield has been the centre of our problems for years and in particular centre midfield.

 

when was the last time we had a guv'nor.

[TRO]

We struggle with the physical side of the game and have done for too long. This is the main reason we are in the plight we are imo.

[Guest av1]

midfield has been the centre of our problems for years and in particular centre midfield.

 

when was the last time we had a guv'nor.

Boetang?

[Swerbs]

Have stuck with my vote no, got no reasonable argument to put forward just a gut feeling that we will stay up.

[Swerbs]

Have stuck with my vote no, got no reasonable argument to put forward just a gut feeling that we will stay up.

[danceoftheshamen]

For me the West Ham win was simply a case of law of averages dictating we were due to win one at some point. We win about 1 in 6 or 7 it appears so that one was overdue & as with our other wins this season we could easily have not won it too.

 

We seem to follow a cycle of:

 

1. Get royally stuffed

2..Lose again but not quite so bad

3. Draw

4. lose

5. Draw

6. Win

 

Repeat

 

So that's 5 points from every 6 games which pretty much adds up to where we are today.

 

Worryingly that puts us down for getting hammered against Arsenal & losing badly to City followed by a draw at Reading then a loss against QPR a draw against Liverpool & then a win due against Stoke or Fulham..

 

Be interesting to see how that pattern holds up as it does look a very possible set of results from those games.

 

If we can somehow win one & draw one against Reading (a) & QPR (h) & pick up a win against Fulham or Stoke plus a surprise draw or two then we are in with a shout. ..

 

That would leave us with around 32 points from 33 games

 

We would then need around 8 points from

 

Man U (a)

Sunderland (h)

Norwich (a)

Chelsea (h)

Wigan (a)

 

So really we would have to beat Sunderland, Norwich & Wigan

 

It's gonna be a bumpy ride i fear & there is simply no room for error now.. What a difference a win in one of the next two would make!

Edited February 21, 2013 by danceoftheshamen

[dont_do_it_doug.]

For me the West Ham win was simply a case of law of averages dictating we were due to win one at some point. We win about 1 in 6 or 7 it appears so that one was overdue & as with our other wins this season we could easily have not won it too.

We seem to follow a cycle of:

1. Get royally stuffed

2..Lose again but not quite so bad

3. Draw

4. lose

5. Draw

6. Win

Repeat

So that's 5 points from every 6 games which pretty much adds up to where we are today.

Worryingly that puts us down for getting hammered against Arsenal & losing badly to City followed by a draw at Reading then a loss against QPR a draw against Liverpool & then a win due against Stoke or Fulham..

Be interesting to see how that pattern holds up as it does look a very possible set of results from those games.

If we can somehow win one & draw one against Reading (a) & QPR (h) & pick up a win against Fulham or Stoke plus a surprise draw or two then we are in with a shout. ..

That would leave us with around 32 points from 33 games

We would then need around 8 points from

Man U (a)

Sunderland (h)

Norwich (a)

Chelsea (h)

Wigan (a)

So really we would have to beat Sunderland, Norwich & Wigan

It's gonna be a bumpy ride i fear & there is simply no room for error now.. What a difference a win in one of the next two would make!

If we're on 32 points after 33 games I fancy our chances. As long as we're still in the fight in fact, which we will be, I fancy our chances.

We have goals in us. We have turned a corner in that regard. Scoring goals will always give you hope.

[PussEKatt]

 

besides wich our issue has not been in acoring goals, it has been in conceding tham

That's quite an extraordinary view to have, if you don't mind me saying so.

We have scored 25 goals in 26 games, worse than all but two teams in the premier league - Norwich who also have 25 and QPR who have 19. It is the combination of scoring so few goals and conceding so many that has put is in such a perilous position. Frankly, our goal-scoring record is pathetic. So far it is as bad as last season and further back in time it is the worst for many a long year

There seems little prospect of the defence getting much better, particularly since Lambert did nothing to strengthen the squad in that respect in January. Some might argue we have more chance of improving our goal-scoring ratio, particularly when you think we have a player in the ranks who, when he plays well and is supported effectively by his fellow midfielders and forwards, scores 1 in every 2 games. He also has a proven track record at getting our club out of a relegation hole.

I recognise a lot of fans don't like Bent, and I suspect Lambert doesn't either, but sometimes getting results is about playing players who are difficult rather than just having a bunch of likeable lads on the pitch.

It's a lack of goals from the rest of the pitch that is the problem. We get a good return from the strikers.

A world class player like Bannan should be on double figures.

Seriously though, we need goals from midfield and defence too.

True, we certainly could use a few more goals scored from midfield BUT dont forget that irrespective of who is scoring the goals, we were ahead against ManUre,WBA,Everton, and a few other teams and we just let our lead slip away.I think what we need more than more goals from midfield is a plan B.When we get 2 goals up we should revert to a defensive formation and try to hang on to our 2/3 goal lead.We must be harder to score against if we are concentrating on defending.

We get ahead enough times that we really should have quite a few more points than we have ?  

[briny_ear]

True, we certainly could use a few more goals scored from midfield BUT dont forget that irrespective of who is scoring the goals, we were ahead against ManUre,WBA,Everton, and a few other teams and we just let our lead slip away.I think what we need more than more goals from midfield is a plan B.When we get 2 goals up we should revert to a defensive formation and try to hang on to our 2/3 goal lead.We must be harder to score against if we are concentrating on defending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We get ahead enough times that we really should have quite a few more points than we have ?  

That's certainly true

 

When you break down our results by got into lead/went behind, the results look like this:

 

Got lead/won - 5 

Got lead/drew - 6

Got lead/lost - 2

 

Went behind/won - 0

Went behind/drew - 1

Went behind/lost - 10

 

0-0 draw - 2

 

So there are 18 potential points lost from games where we were ahead. If we'd just got half of those, we would be on 33 points and in mid table.

 

I think the other main issue to come out of those figures of course is how helpless we are when we go behind. We've only managed 1 point from that position - against West Brom (some chap called Bent scored late on  ).

 

It's been a feature of Villa teams in recent years that we are quite resilient and are able to rescue losing positions, to balance our penchant for letting leads slip away, even under McFool and Foollier (and it was a particular strength of MON's teams). We lost a lot of points from winning positions over the last two seasons (22 under McFool and a whopping 26 under Foollier) but we also picked up a good few points after going behind.

 

So you could argue that is the important change. Losing points from ahead has become a way of life but our utter failure to have any plan for when we fall behind is maybe what has hurt us most.

[TRO]

True, we certainly could use a few more goals scored from midfield BUT dont forget that irrespective of who is scoring the goals, we were ahead against ManUre,WBA,Everton, and a few other teams and we just let our lead slip away.I think what we need more than more goals from midfield is a plan B.When we get 2 goals up we should revert to a defensive formation and try to hang on to our 2/3 goal lead.We must be harder to score against if we are concentrating on defending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We get ahead enough times that we really should have quite a few more points than we have ?  

That's certainly true

 

When you break down our results by got into lead/went behind, the results look like this:

 

Got lead/won - 5 

Got lead/drew - 6

Got lead/lost - 2

 

Went behind/won - 0

Went behind/drew - 1

Went behind/lost - 10

 

0-0 draw - 2

 

So there are 18 potential points lost from games where we were ahead. If we'd just got half of those, we would be on 33 points and in mid table.

 

I think the other main issue to come out of those figures of course is how helpless we are when we go behind. We've only managed 1 point from that position - against West Brom (some chap called Bent scored late on  ).

 

It's been a feature of Villa teams in recent years that we are quite resilient and are able to rescue losing positions, to balance our penchant for letting leads slip away, even under McFool and Foollier (and it was a particular strength of MON's teams). We lost a lot of points from winning positions over the last two seasons (22 under McFool and a whopping 26 under Foollier) but we also picked up a good few points after going behind.

 

So you could argue that is the important change. Losing points from ahead has become a way of life but our utter failure to have any plan for when we fall behind is maybe what has hurt us most.

 

Except that your comments/moment may be selective.

 

Scenario - We enter a Cup final against one of the best teams in Europe.... I would guess if you asked 80% of the fans before the game.... what would you hope for?   an early goal/lead.

 

from that you would kind of expect to close the game somewhat and make it difficult for one of the best teams around to function..... a little like Barcelona v Inter Milan   and just recently Barcelona v AC Milan or even Villa under Saunders.

 

Instead due to a complete lack of ball control basically through the whole team.....despite an ability to smash & Grab results away from home in the league ........we fall over the ball on the half way line and conceed an inoccuous goal....but instead choose to blame the ref for not sending off vidic ( which he should have done granted)

 

so much for the great defensive work under MON....we need to look at ourselves a bit more.

 

Oh not to mention Chelsea away....hush my mouth.

 

PS This defensive flaw has been around since Martin Laursen went.

Edited February 22, 2013 by TRO