bobzy Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Xela said: We all know a winter break means friendly games in Qatar, Dubai, Bangkok, Singapore, etc And we'd be off to China. It's a good opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 11 hours ago, dudevillaisnice said: Wonder if Klopp will be moaning after this fixture.. it's why I can't take him seriously when he talks about a winter break when they jet off for a fixture like this. Klopp is a sulky hypocritical rocket polisher. I wouldnt take a thing he says seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 hours ago, bobzy said: And we'd be off to China. It's a good opportunity. I dont think anybody in China be in a hurry to watch us play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 4 hours ago, villa4europe said: they've done it for the last 2/3 years, think spurs did it last year too Yep... but never so close to the end of the season. Anyway, my shock was rather at seeing Carragher and Gerrard on the pitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Mind you, seeing Steve McManaman coming on as a sub was slightly unexpected too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Would be hilarious if they signed Casillas to be their number one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 19 hours ago, dudevillaisnice said: Wonder if Klopp will be moaning after this fixture.. it's why I can't take him seriously when he talks about a winter break when they jet off for a fixture like this. He's the new MON - big budget - lots of friends in the media. Once one of those goes there's not an awful lot there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 Re: the goalkeeper debate on the previous page. Mignolet is crap. I actually don't understand how Liverpool, who consider themselves to be a top club, still have him as their number 1 (I know they signed that other chap who's had a spell too). I don't rate Hart THAT highly, but he looks like Buffon compared to Mignolet. If he's available then it would be a great signing for Liverpool. He's better than anyone else they could realistically get (unknown gems aside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 How many points has Mignolet won for Liverpool last season. People are judging him on what he used to be like because he has become a very good goalkeeper. Klopp will stick with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, PaulC said: How many points has Mignolet won for Liverpool last season. People are judging him on what he used to be like because he has become a very good goalkeeper. Klopp will stick with him! By absolutely no definition is Mignolet a "very good goalkeeper" at Premier League level. Klopp's already tried to replace him once. I'd be hugely surprised if a suitable keeper isn't high on their priority list this summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: By absolutely no definition is Mignolet a "very good goalkeeper" at Premier League level. Klopp's already tried to replace him once. I'd be hugely surprised if a suitable keeper isn't high on their priority list this summer. "Very good" might be a stretch, but he definitely gets a rough ride because of making a few mistakes. He's a very good shot stopper and saves a surprising amount of penalties. His main faults have been command of the area and claiming crosses, but he seems to be getting better at those. He's one of those players who you could improve pretty easily, but maybe not that substantially. I think their defenders need replacing more readily, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: "Very good" might be a stretch, but he definitely gets a rough ride because of making a few mistakes. He's a very good shot stopper and saves a surprising amount of penalties. His main faults have been command of the area and claiming crosses, but he seems to be getting better at those. He's one of those players who you could improve pretty easily, but maybe not that substantially. I think their defenders need replacing more readily, personally. Good shot stoppers are ten a penny at premier league level. Ali Al Habsi is a good shot stopper. What sets elite goalkeepers apart is all the other stuff. Concentration, command of the area, aerial ability, organisation of defence, distribution, one v ones etc, and I'd argue Mignolet is average (relatively speaking) at most or all of those. And he's been around a while to suddenly get much better at them, although I acknowledger it could happen given Goalkeepers tendency to be late bloomers. Look at the top 8 teams in the premier league's number one keepers. You've got the elite few of Courtois, Lloris and De Gea Then you've got the "very good" keepers but not quite at that level in Cech (as he is now) and Forster And then you've got the other three of Mignolet, Bravo and Robles who just don't cut it. And I'd bet all three of those last keepers are replaced this summer. Edited May 25, 2017 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 9 clean sheets in 28 games last season in a team that is very attacking isn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 Just now, PaulC said: 9 clean sheets in 28 games last season in a team that is very attacking isn't bad. It's not, but it's an almost irrelevant stat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Not really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Good shot stoppers are ten a penny at premier league level. Ali Al Habsi is a good shot stopper. What sets elite goalkeepers apart is all the other stuff. Concentration, command of the area, aerial ability, organisation of defence, distribution, one v ones etc, and I'd argue Mignolet is average (relatively speaking) at most or all of those. And he's been around a while to suddenly get much better at them, although I acknowledger it could happen given Goalkeepers tendency to be late bloomers. Look at the top 8 teams in the premier league's number one keepers. You've got the elite few of Courtois, Lloris and De Gea Then you've got the "very good" keepers but not quite at that level in Cech (as he is now) and Forster And then you've got the other three of Mignolet, Bravo and Robles who just don't cut it. And I'd bet all three of those last keepers are replaced this summer. I mean, they're not. Mignolet has better reflexes, for me, than many of the Premier League "shot stoppers" - Adrian, Foster, Forster, Pickford. The thing is that those goalkeepers (aside from maybe Adrian and Pickford (who in fairness is still learning quickly)) are better at commanding their area. But that's where Mignolet has improved this season. The elite are much, much better at being positionally perfect. Lloris is the best example of it, in my eyes - he's also made mistakes this season, but he positions himself so well at the sign of any potential threat. De Gea does it too, as does Cech. Courtois seems to have gotten slightly worse (oddly) but is very commanding. That's why they're outstanding. FWIW, from your "top 8" example, I would rather have Lloris, De Gea, Cech or Courtois - but Mignolet over Cabellero/Bravo, Robles/Stekelenburg and Forster. He's at the top of that, "not-world-class-but-still-good" goalkeeper bracket. As I say, easy to improve on but not really vital. He may be replaced though, I agree. Edit: I meant to say - way better than Al Habsi who, granted, had his moments but was wildly inconsistent. Edited May 25, 2017 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 There's no way on earth I'd have Mignolet over Forster. And it's a toss up with the others. None of them are good enough for their respective clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 2 hours ago, PaulC said: Not really It is though. I could go in goal for Juventus and I'd pick up a few clean sheets. Similarly you could put Buffon in goal for the 15/16 Aston Villa team and he'd have struggled to keep a single clean sheet. It's massively dependant on your defence. Johnstone got a shit load of clean sheets for us this season and barely made a save. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It is though. I could go in goal for Juventus and I'd pick up a few clean sheets. Similarly you could put Buffon in goal for the 15/16 Aston Villa team and he'd have struggled to keep a single clean sheet. It's massively dependant on your defence. Johnstone got a shit load of clean sheets for us this season and barely made a save. Yes but Liverpool have a crap defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, PaulC said: Yes but Liverpool have a crap defence Fourth best GA record in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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