Aston Villa players in Birmingham nightclub brawl

[villan_down_under]

To be honest, hard grafting, factory workers behave better than this on a night out and generally in life

It's the money, isn't it? You're pissed off about the privileged lifestyle they enjoy.

Not at all

It's the behaviour

CI, congratulations on the above quote. (Full stop) Even by your own scaremongering and attention seeking generalistions, that is a beauty. (Full stop)

To be honest! (Exclamation Mark)

[kkr]

To be honest, hard grafting, factory workers behave better than this on a night out and generally in life

It's the money, isn't it? You're pissed off about the privileged lifestyle they enjoy.

Yes they are athletes not human beings dont you know. They are well off young men and as such must do without any social life, be in bed by 2100 every night during the season even when they are off the next day.

Alcohol is completely forbidden and because they are athletes with money their job comes with no pressure despite them supposedly being role models to 1000's of fans.

Furthermore they must be completely committed to the team just like us the loyal fans are because every single one of us appreciate our bosses, owners and superiors and never have a shit day, week or months doing our job.

None of us have also ever been young and made mistakes or been caught up in situations we would rather not be in. But hey they are athletes who should have no social life so how dare they venture out of their house on a night off.

I hope those complaining about the actions of Collins, Herd and Delph dont ever sing the name of Paul McGrath then because he makes these boys look like saints.

[darrenm]

I think it's nothing really. People get pissed up and do shit, no surprises there.

However, I do think that as Premier League footballers, they accept that the privileges they enjoy carries a responsibility not to go out drinking and get into trouble, as they've indicated with their apologies.

Modern footballers are treated as idols by the masses, whether they like it or not. They need to wind down, like the rest of us, but if they can only do this by drinking a lot of alcohol and staying out till late, increasing the risk of this kind of thing happening, they won't ever make it to the top of their profession.

We're very much behind the continent with how footballers need to behave. The top European clubs have much stricter rules on diets and fitness, and it shows that only our elite clubs can compete because of this. Alcohol for top athletes does nothing good.

As I said, I can't see a lot wrong in this, apart from I'm surprised they were out drinking that late, as it shows they don't have any real desire to be at the top of their game. I'm not condemning them for it, just saying if I was in their position, I would certainly be living the ultimate athlete's lifestyle that their profession affords them.

[pacbuddies]

Please tell me as I am intrigued to know, how have you, someone who has never met me, conversed with me (other than on this forum) or knows my educational and personal development background concluded that I have poor critical thinking ability?

Lets see ...first of all you are have the crazy notion that morality is not subjective and falls into the arbritary and limited categories of either good or bad. You then state that the side you have chosen is somehow more respectable than the other whilst disregarding centuries of evidence that show humans to be very flawed in their nature .

It is very strange for anyone on here to show such indignation over something as petty as young, rich, intoxicated males behaving in an overly exuberant manner . Their profession is irrelevant and they have no more reason to behave "properly" than any other human on this planet .

I would wager anything that there are many people on here who are condemning them who have behaved in a similar manner , if not "worse".

Everyone **** up now and again, from Presidents to Popes and nobody is perfect so to claim some sort of moral high ground whilst depicting subjective matters in such black and white terms indicates to me a lack of critical thinking and a failure to comprehend our inherent human condition.

I do not know you or your upbringing and can only go off what you post but to me you give the impression of somebody who reads the sun and listens to talksport . You live in a world where right and wrong are crystal clear ideas and woe betide those who fail to abide by them.

Quite a detailed, if not somewhat flawed response.

You are quite right, people do make mistakes, nobody is perfect (not even me amazingly enough!). However, for me there are some things that fall into a bracket of what is socially acceptable and what is not. This could well be to do with my personal upbringing and educational standard but nevertheless, it is what I believe.

Now, for my last point, for you to have the impression (just by reading a few posts on a football forum which is quite an emotive place I might add) that I read a particular newspaper and listen to a particular radio station is probably not the best example of someone applying a high level of critical thinking.

[brommy]

What we have on this forum is a mixture of those members of society who have some common decency, principles and morals who think that the behaviour of those Villa players is unacceptable and those members of society with little or no common decency, principles and morals who think the behaviour of those Villa players is acceptable and just a normal thing to do on a night out.

I am glad to say that I fall into the former category.

Worth a poll?

I think the incident was disappointingly unacceptable and the players should be warned and heavily fined so that important charities can benefit but I don't accept that it brings shame on the club or it's fans and refuse to make more of it than it was (a small scuffle and a kicked door). Where should I vote?

[Overdubber]

Surely that`s what footballer are there for. Kicking things.....

Frustration in there obviously, but none of us know what went on inside, and it certainly isn`t the first time a nightclub door got kicked.

Not woth it, move on.

[CI]

I'm not sure what's more disappointing, the actions of the players in or around Gatecrasher or some of the subsequent support on here for said individuals

For me, it's a disgrace, they are not comparable to joe bloggs in the sense they are Aston Villa and are contracted to not do this

[Robbie09]

To be honest, hard grafting, factory workers behave better than this on a night out and generally in life

It's the money, isn't it? You're pissed off about the privileged lifestyle they enjoy.

Not at all

It's the behaviour

CI, congratulations on the above quote. (Full stop) Even by your own scaremongering and attention seeking generalistions, that is a beauty. (Full stop)

To be honest! (Exclamation Mark)

Take a bow !

[briny_ear]

can I suggest that anyone who genuinely wants to defend these guys goes back and looks at the video again and then answers honestly the following questions: yes/no.

1. Are they making complete fools of themselves?

2. Is their behaviour tacky and demeaning to themselves?

3. Is what they are doing in any way enhancing the reputation of Aston Villa Football Club

4. If you had been caught on video doing that, would you be proud of it?

If anyone genuinely can answer anything other than: 1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. No; 4. No, please do explain your reasoning.

[Brumerican]

Quite a detailed, if not somewhat flawed response.

Exactly my point .Flawed.

You are quite right, people do make mistakes, nobody is perfect (not even me amazingly enough!).

Me neither .

However, for me there are some things that fall into a bracket of what is socially acceptable and what is not. This could well be to do with my personal upbringing and educational standard but nevertheless, it is what I believe.

Likewise.

I believe morality is subjective and judging and condemning others by these arbritary standards belies a lack of understanding and rational thinking .

Now, for my last point, for you to have the impression (just by reading a few posts on a football forum which is quite an emotive place I might add) that I read a particular newspaper and listen to a particular radio station is probably not the best example of someone applying a high level of critical thinking.

It's only an impression as you say . If i am wrong then fair enough but to me, someone who is so judgemental and holier than thou on matters of morality when you even admit yourself that you are not perfect comes off as hypocritical. Hypocrisy is a staple of the gutter press as you know and I just made a tenuous assertion based on that . There is no lack of rationality in that . Sarcasm yes, glibness maybe and possibly a hint of unwarranted condescension for which I apologise.

[MikeMcKenna]

Amazing 25 pages about a scuffle. Shows how boring our season has been that this incident is this biggest news item on AVFC all season.

They were naughty boys, acting like prats and were fined accordingly - lets move on!

[Brumerican]

I'm not sure what's more disappointing, the actions of the players in or around Gatecrasher or some of the subsequent support on here for said individuals

For me, it's a disgrace, they are not comparable to joe bloggs in the sense they are Aston Villa and are contracted to not do this

Most disappointing thing of all is your ability to make a mountain out of a molehil,l whilst feigning outrage over something which in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal . Nobody died . You still get to pretend you are going to work on Tuesday morning and by next week no one will be talking about this .

When you say they are contracted not to do this , what do you mean ?

Is it an anti-human contract where they are prohibited from making any mistakes whilst at the club ?

[brommy]

can I suggest that anyone who genuinely wants to defend these guys goes back and looks at the video again and then answers honestly the following questions: yes/no.

1. Are they making complete fools of themselves?

2. Is their behaviour tacky and demeaning to themselves?

3. Is what they are doing in any way enhancing the reputation of Aston Villa Football Club

4. If you had been caught on video doing that, would you be proud of it?

If anyone genuinely can answer anything other that 1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. No; 4. No, please do explain your reasoning.

Are people defending the players or just accepting the punishment was suitable and wish to move on after a regretable incident? It was a small scuffle and a kicked nightclub door, not a serious physical or sexual assualt. Seeking perspective does not condone their action.

[brommy]

Amazing 25 pages about a scuffle. Shows how boring our season has been that this incident is this biggest news item on AVFC all season.

They were naughty boys, acting like prats and were fined accordingly - lets move on!

We have a winner!

[villarich1982]

Amazing 25 pages about a scuffle. Shows how boring our season has been that this incident is this biggest news item on AVFC all season.

They were naughty boys, acting like prats and were fined accordingly - lets move on!

I'd hardly call a 20-man brawl a scuffle

[villarich1982]

the brawl wasn't outside, it was upstairs in the VIP area ;0)

Check out the new footage in the mail today and you will see that it all kicked off in the VIP area

[Houlston]

Amazing 25 pages about a scuffle. Shows how boring our season has been that this incident is this biggest news item on AVFC all season.

They were naughty boys, acting like prats and were fined accordingly - lets move on!

I'd hardly call a 20-man brawl a scuffle

You're right a '20 man brawl' is not a scuffle but everyone else on here is mainly commenting on a video which does show a scuffle and a kicked door as they don't know what went on inside. However I do find it amazing how in this 20 man brawl there were no ripped shirts or bruised faces to the naughty Aston Villa players.

can I suggest that anyone who genuinely wants to defend these guys goes back and looks at the video again and then answers honestly the following questions: yes/no.

1. Are they making complete fools of themselves?

2. Is their behaviour tacky and demeaning to themselves?

3. Is what they are doing in any way enhancing the reputation of Aston Villa Football Club

4. If you had been caught on video doing that, would you be proud of it?

If anyone genuinely can answer anything other than: 1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. No; 4. No, please do explain your reasoning.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. No

4. No

5. Are these questions relevant - No

6. Is it a big deal - No

7. Does it drag Villa through the mud - No

8. Are people overreacting - Yes

[Houlston]

the brawl wasn't outside, it was upstairs in the VIP area ;0)

Check out the new footage in the mail today and you will see that it all kicked off in the VIP area

Yeah it really kicked off, so much so that you can hardly see anything, certainly not a 20 man brawl and even the reporter narrating calls it a scuffle.

[villan_down_under]

Amazing 25 pages about a scuffle. Shows how boring our season has been that this incident is this biggest news item on AVFC all season.

They were naughty boys, acting like prats and were fined accordingly - lets move on!

I'd hardly call a 20-man brawl a scuffle

You're right a '20 man brawl' is not a scuffle but everyone else on here is mainly commenting on a video which does show a scuffle and a kicked door as they don't know what went on inside. However I do find it amazing how in this 20 man brawl there were no ripped shirts or bruised faces to the naughty Aston Villa players.

can I suggest that anyone who genuinely wants to defend these guys goes back and looks at the video again and then answers honestly the following questions: yes/no.

1. Are they making complete fools of themselves?

2. Is their behaviour tacky and demeaning to themselves?

3. Is what they are doing in any way enhancing the reputation of Aston Villa Football Club

4. If you had been caught on video doing that, would you be proud of it?

If anyone genuinely can answer anything other than: 1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. No; 4. No, please do explain your reasoning.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. No

4. No

5. Are these questions relevant - No

6. Is it a big deal - No

7. Does it drag Villa through the mud - No

8. Are people overreacting - Yes

At long last a voice of sanity!

[CI]

I'm not sure what's more disappointing, the actions of the players in or around Gatecrasher or some of the subsequent support on here for said individuals

For me, it's a disgrace, they are not comparable to joe bloggs in the sense they are Aston Villa and are contracted to not do this

Most disappointing thing of all is your ability to make a mountain out of a molehil?

What ? A 20 man brawl in the full gaze of the public and you think it's insignificant

I'm thinking you have very low morale standards