Confirmed: Paul Lambert new Villa boss

[Dante_Lockhart]

I want to see him come in now and tell the high earning players (anyone over 50k a week) that he would like to restructure their contracts to a lower wage and free some space up for signings.

And why the hell would they agree to that??? I wouldn't and I'm sure you wouldn't if your new boss asked you.

I'm sure I could manage living on 40k a week instead of 55k. Put a clause in the contract saying that if we achieve so and so position then you'll get an increase.

I'd rather take a wage reduction if it meant freeing up some space to make more signings to bump us up the league... like you said though, can't see many being of the same mind. Just my no-nonsense approach to footballers wages and not justifying them.

"You were crap, you don't deserve your wage, restructure to this or we'll sell you"

We could say 'Two options; you agree to this new contract with reduced terms, or we place you on the transfer list'.

But then they could just refuse to go to any club that came in for them (if anyone did).

It's difficult to have that approach unless you're playing FM (in my first available transfer window I usually get rid of Heskey, Dunne, Collins & Petrov in any way possible :winkold:).

Yeah I've been playing FM a lot lately so I'm probably thinking it'll be too easy!

[CI]

Lowering the player wages is a brilliant idea

Unfortunately it ain't happening in reality

We'd end up with the unions & ultimately the courts involved

[Dante_Lockhart]

Performance based contracts are the future.

[nick76]

Performance based contracts are the future.

It's a great idea, unfortunately footballers still control the game. Unless all clubs do the same, then if you offer performance based contracts we won't get players as other clubs will just pay higher fixed weekly pay than us.

[BOF]

'Performance' is a little too subjective and vague to be something that determines a contract aswell.

[Dante_Lockhart]

'Performance' is a little too subjective and vague to be something that determines a contract aswell.

Basic wage across the board.

Assist bonus

Goal bonus

Clean sheet bonus

MOTM bonus

Table finish percentage increase for basic wage

It would work I tells ya!! 8)

[BOF]

Yeah they're all tangible Dante, but what about players who don't rack up the stats but do the dirty work. The 'engine room' players who make the team tick don't get much of the above. I just think at a certain level, football becomes more than a numbers game. Even strikers aren't always the out-and-out goalscorer. If you pay them on goals, they start taking it for themselves where others are in better positions, and you hurt the team as a result. In the real world I think it wouldn't work. It's too simplistic a solution in reality IMHO. Footballers' qualities may be little more than a game of Top Trumps to most, but they're far more than that when it comes to a 'team' and how it fits together. Ultimately it's up to the manager to make sure players are playing to their standard.

[brommy]

'Performance' is a little too subjective and vague to be something that determines a contract aswell.

Basic wage across the board.

Assist bonus

Goal bonus

Clean sheet bonus

MOTM bonus

Table finish percentage increase for basic wage

It would work I tells ya!! 8)

Only if all comparable clubs do the same. As nick76 wrote, if another club is offering a basic salary higher than what we offer the same player (if he wasn't 'performing'), the player is likely to take the higher guaranteed wage from the other club. Players will accept a small (in relative terms) win bonus structure, but are unlikely to accept a wage cut if 'everyone' thinks they are off-form or are perceived to be not putting enough effort in.

[nazvfc]

'Performance' is a little too subjective and vague to be something that determines a contract aswell.

Basic wage across the board.

Assist bonus

Goal bonus

Clean sheet bonus

MOTM bonus

Table finish percentage increase for basic wage

It would work I tells ya!! 8)

Think it did back when Lord Saunders was manager. If I remember - players had a basic - plus a bonus for a win (or was it each point) Bonus for goals etc. Remember being told this by Dennis Mortimer and that Ellis stopped this as soon as he took over and sold/shipped out most of the European Cup Winning players.

[Rob182]

It could work if you took out all the bonuses for goals/ assists and changed it to the two following criteria:

- Points per game

- Clean sheets

For example: Let's say Hutton is on £30k p/w currently.

His standard wage with this new structure would be £20k p/w. If we get 3 points per game, he adds 8k to his weekly wage. For every week we get a clean sheet he adds another £8k p/w.

On a good week he would get £36k. If we won 2-1, he'd get £28k p/w. But also, the 'average points per game', would reduce quite drastically as it's very unlikely we'd win every game.

I dunno, just an idea, following on from what Dante said.

[brommy]

It could work if you took out all the bonuses for goals/ assists and changed it to the two following criteria:

- Points per game

- Clean sheets

For example: Let's say Hutton is on £30k p/w currently.

His standard wage with this new structure would be £20k p/w. If we get 3 points per game, he adds 8k to his weekly wage. For every week we get a clean sheet he adds another £8k p/w.

On a good week he would get £36k. If we won 2-1, he'd get £28k p/w. But also, the 'average points per game', would reduce quite drastically as it's very unlikely we'd win every game.

I dunno, just an idea, following on from what Dante said.

Most players would claim that they were performing well and they won't take a pay cut (because that's how they would see it), just because the keeper didn't save a shot and the striker didn't put a chance away (costing them a clean sheet and win bonuses). Back on topic - good luck to Paul Lambert; he's got plenty of work to do!

[CannockVillan]

You can't have a performace based pay system which isn't designed for the team as a whole. you can't haver strikers awarded for goals and defenders awarded for clean sheets. Do Midfielders get both.

What happens if at a corner (defending) one of our stirkers loses his man and a goal results. Does the striker lose a bonus or tje defenders or both.

You stand and fall as a team and that is the only way perfomrance pay works. Team related i.e cup runs, league position, win bonuses.

I'd be all for a salary cap, supplemented by performance related pay. But then i'm not a footballer!

Villa have said that there is no salary cap but to me that's mnot quite true. There's an overall position we need to maintain and that therefore puts pressure on the salaries of any indiviudals. Yes you'll have high earners and low earners. What you won't get is 11 high earners. With a club like Villa you'll have 3 maybe even four.

That's why we need to change our approach, change the way we play (from the kids up) and look for a style that will be successful in the prem. It doesn't have to be the tika taka of la liga but a combination of possession and power is what i think is needed. closest to that imho are the Germans.

[CI]

You'd be creating an environment where players may not pass to one another

[Qwpzxjor1]

You'd be creating an environment where players may not pass to one another

My thoughts exactly.

Or an environment where players fight because Bent misses and sitter and N'Zogbia sulks that he just cost him his assist bonus.

Or someone gives away a penalty and the defenders cry because they lost their clean sheet bonus.

It's a team game, individual bonuses can't be used as a wage system without risking turning players against each other and creating an atmosphere of fear where players aren't willing to go beyond their job description.

[Rob182]

You can't have a performace based pay system which isn't designed for the team as a whole. you can't haver strikers awarded for goals and defenders awarded for clean sheets. Do Midfielders get both.

What happens if at a corner (defending) one of our stirkers loses his man and a goal results. Does the striker lose a bonus or tje defenders or both.

You stand and fall as a team and that is the only way perfomrance pay works. Team related i.e cup runs, league position, win bonuses.

I'd be all for a salary cap, supplemented by performance related pay. But then i'm not a footballer!

Villa have said that there is no salary cap but to me that's mnot quite true. There's an overall position we need to maintain and that therefore puts pressure on the salaries of any indiviudals. Yes you'll have high earners and low earners. What you won't get is 11 high earners. With a club like Villa you'll have 3 maybe even four.

That's why we need to change our approach, change the way we play (from the kids up) and look for a style that will be successful in the prem. It doesn't have to be the tika taka of la liga but a combination of possession and power is what i think is needed. closest to that imho are the Germans.

It was only an idea. Also, my idea was for the whole team. I didn't mention goal bonuses or clean sheet bonuses 'just for defenders'.

The aim of the team, and the football club, is to win games. So I don't see how a 'points per game' bonus system would not be fair. Players would be more inclined to defend a corner/ set piece, players wouldn't shoot for their goal bonus when a team mate is in a better position.

[briny_ear]

You'd be creating an environment where players may not pass to one another

That sounds a bit like Villa last season. Maybe performance-related pay has already been introduced?

[Valhalla]

What a ridiculous discussion.

[romavillan]

What a ridiculous discussion.

my thoughts exactly. the players are the game, they shoudl get the lions share of the profits from the game. the problem is that the profits are so high at the top they can afford to giev the top players massive amounts of money that a less successfull club just cannot sustain.

our problem with wages came when we didn't break in to the top 4 or even supplement our income a bit with runs to the last 8 of the europa league or better in the 3 years we finished 6th. if we'd have managed to do that our world profile would have been higher, so more lucrative sponsorship deals, more gates, better yield from home ads etc. which might have meant a sustained crack at the top 4.

none of that happened though and now we have to get wages in line with our revenue. we have a manager now though who knows how to get the most from our assets, so maybe in a couple of years we'll be looking at increased revenue and we can kick on from there.

back to my first point, i'd much rather the money went to the players (for all the ills it creates) then we go back to the days when the chairmen and the suits make a killing and after a top flight career a great player has to scratch a living for the rest of his life after creating enormous wealth for someone else.

[Smithy07]

Haha if you need cheering up just look at the pinkun message boards latest post

Lmao they really do hate us they are even starting to refer to us as *vilers* like the blose do i like the *big mouthed* American owner part ive yet to hear Randy speak more than a couple of sentences

Norwich have become very bitter & small time,a shame really as they were a club I quite liked,they will get over it in time.

With respect its a bit rich you calling us small time when massive Aston Villa are the ones trying to get out of paying compensation for taking our manager. Despite what many of you appear to have convinced yourselves Lambert can;t just rip up his contract and there will be compensation due. If you would just get on and agree it then i am sure Culverhouse and Karsa will be with you the next day as (again despite what many of you seem to think) we are under no illusions that they will eventually follow Lambert and that their current retention is anything other than linked to the compensation issue.

You will need Culverhouse as he is apparently a great coach and he is the one who does all the day to day coaching. He is also apparently key in identifying transfer targets. Nobody knows what Karsa does. Have heard he is lambert's brother in law and he seems to find him a job wherever he goes but never seen any evidence of him actually doing anything.

Anyway hopefully sense will soon prevail and it will all be sorted soon. We are actually all pretty happy at Hughton coming in and the start of a new chapter and I can tell from here that you are all delighted with lambert. You should be as he is an excellent manager.

[CI]

Is the win bonus system still widely used ?

Also wasn't there a top 6 bonus system too ?