DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 26 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah that's the bit I disagree on. Just because Man City get found guilty doesn't mean Pep hasn't performed well. That's seems mad to me. No one talks about how well Lance Armstrong performed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: He was also cleared of all charges from memory. And this would've been in the latter years of his career, having just moved to Italy where doping was quite rife. Maybe he is a serial cheat, but I don't buy it. Interesting when you read up on it. Cleared on a technicality. The people he associated with within this doping error seem to be dodgy people. I'd be amazed if it was just a genuine error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Interesting when you read up on it. Cleared on a technicality. The people he associated with within this doping error seem to be dodgy people. I'd be amazed if it was just a genuine error. I doubt it was an error. I'd also doubt that Guardiola was behind it - he may well have gone along with it, or not protested or whatever - but the whole "drug cheat" thing, I'm just not sure about. Doping was rife in Italy; there were a few high profile players caught and (likely) loads more not caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'd be amazed if it was just a genuine error. 99% of the time it isn’t. There was one the other day who I forget who it was who “accidentally took his partners medication” which also happened to be a drug used to mask PED’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 28 minutes ago, bobzy said: He was also cleared of all charges from memory. And this would've been in the latter years of his career, having just moved to Italy where doping was quite rife. Maybe he is a serial cheat, but I don't buy it. He was cleared on a technicality and he blamed it on his doctor......who he then hired for Barcelona when he was manager Once a cheat always a cheat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 51 minutes ago, DCJonah said: That's seems mad to me. No one talks about how well Lance Armstrong performed. Finally! Someone gets it. Their performance is totally irrelevant because both Guardiola (Using PED's at several clubs) and Man City (115 charges of outright cheating), are dirty cheats. That's on top of the fact they are sponsoring their own stadium which nobody else is allowed to do, and gives them a further advantage. The Lance Armstrong comparison is bang on. I wonder how many cycling fans would go back and watch his races now and say, "yeah but I love cycling and he was so good". None I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 There is a saying in law that “ignorance isn’t a defense”! In reality it’s not Pep’s job to agree fees or wages or file financial returns. But he will know that they are cooking the books. He will know that they are spending so much more than everyone else. Does that reduce what he’s done as a manager? For me, yes it does. I think it takes a good driver to win a rally but if your car is 10 times better than the next it’s a lot easier. I fear there won’t ever be a conclusion to the City investigation. They will just kick the can down the road and destroy evidence until there’s not enough to make a reasonable case and it will be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 16 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: Finally! Someone gets it. Their performance is totally irrelevant because both Guardiola (Using PED's at several clubs) and Man City (115 charges of outright cheating), are dirty cheats. That's on top of the fact they are sponsoring their own stadium which nobody else is allowed to do, and gives them a further advantage. The Lance Armstrong comparison is bang on. I wonder how many cycling fans would go back and watch his races now and say, "yeah but I love cycling and he was so good". None I suspect. The Lance Armstrong comparison is nowhere near bang on. Cycling is almost entirely an endurance sport where taking a drug (or, in Armstrong's case, multiple differing drugs) would lead to a huge advantage. You'd be looking at a race and witnessing the destruction of other riders by someone obviously far better. Meanwhile; money doesn't guarantee anything in football - just look at Chelsea. Man City have overspent against a rule (probably) and - worse, for me I think - have then tried to cover it up. However, this doesn't mean that all the players on the pitch are suddenly much better. They need to be coached and managed. It's fine to acknowledge that Guardiola is a fantastic coach irrespective of whatever breach has happened. (As an aside, how much are they charged as having broken FFP by? Are we talking £40m? £200m? £1bn? Does anyone know?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: That's seems mad to me. No one talks about how well Lance Armstrong performed. Not that it's a particularly relevant comparison, but they literally do Edited February 14 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: I don't disagree with you. I think he's incredible at coaching elite athletes and that in itself is a unique talent. I was just taking the opportunity to asterisk the "spending" part of the conversation. that's something else that is underappreciated, it is a skill, as many failing chelsea and psg managers show the idea that anyone could do his job simply isn't true, he's an ego stroker who somehow keeps international players worth a fair few million and earning a fair few thousand per week happy being 3rd choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 Just now, villa4europe said: that's something else that is underappreciated, it is a skill, as many failing chelsea and psg managers show the idea that anyone could do his job simply isn't true, he's an ego stroker who somehow keeps international players worth a fair few million and earning a fair few thousand per week happy being 3rd choice If anyone could do his job then they would. But they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 If Guardiola ever runs out of Man City defenders he should try Villa Talk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 Just now, GlobalVillan said: If Guardiola ever runs out of Man City defenders he should try Villa Talk. Has anyone defended Man City? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I'm 14 minutes ago, bobzy said: The Lance Armstrong comparison is nowhere near bang on. Cycling is almost entirely an endurance sport where taking a drug (or, in Armstrong's case, multiple differing drugs) would lead to a huge advantage. You'd be looking at a race and witnessing the destruction of other riders by someone obviously far better. Meanwhile; money doesn't guarantee anything in football - just look at Chelsea. Man City have overspent against a rule (probably) and - worse, for me I think - have then tried to cover it up. However, this doesn't mean that all the players on the pitch are suddenly much better. They need to be coached and managed. It's fine to acknowledge that Guardiola is a fantastic coach irrespective of whatever breach has happened. (As an aside, how much are they charged as having broken FFP by? Are we talking £40m? £200m? £1bn? Does anyone know?) What???? They paid players and managers off the books so they could pay them more and get better players and better managers! That makes what you've said about "not suddenly making the players better" totally redundant. I suggest you research what the charges are and then you'd stop writing such stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: If Guardiola ever runs out of Man City defenders he should try Villa Talk. You're right I should blindly hate pep and think he's an overrated terrible manager because man city cheated FFP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, Stevo985 said: Has anyone defended Man City? Lol. Obviously yes. The "what have they really done that's so bad" or the "that doesn't necessarily make them better" posts are exactly that. Defending them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, villa4europe said: You're right I should blindly hate pep and think he's an overrated terrible manager because man city cheated FFP Blindly? Guardiola has used PED's at several clubs. He is a cheat just like his club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 Just now, GlobalVillan said: Lol. Obviously yes. The "what have they really done that's so bad" Has anyone said that? Just now, GlobalVillan said: "that doesn't necessarily make them better" Has anybody said this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: I'm What???? They paid players and managers off the books so they could pay them more and get better players and better managers! That makes what you've said about "not suddenly making the players better" totally redundant. I suggest you research what the charges are and then you'd stop writing such stuff. I can't really be bothered. Can you please let me know which players were paid off the books and the level of which the off the book spend was? Would be far easier - cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, Stevo985 said: Has anyone said that? Has anybody said this? Yes! A few posts up. @bobzyliterally said that doesn't make the players on the pitch suddenly better. On this very page. Why else would I say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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