Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 Just now, GlobalVillan said: Yes! A few posts up. @bobzyliterally said that doesn't make the players on the pitch suddenly better. On this very page. Why else would I say it? It doesn't make the players better though does it. Unless you think off the book payments has made Kevin De Bruyne into a world class player? it allows Man City to buy MORE players who are that good and pay them more to attract them. Which is a very bad thing. Nobody has disputed this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, bobzy said: I can't really be bothered. Can you please let me know which players were paid off the books and the level of which the off the book spend was? Would be far easier - cheers! Watch the numerous documentaries on the matter. It's all out there and the fact you haven't probably means you should stop defending them, since you have no idea what you are actually talking about on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, GlobalVillan said: Watch the numerous documentaries on the matter. It's all out there and the fact you haven't probably means you should stop defending them, since you have no idea what you are actually talking about on the subject. I've just said I can't be bothered. Can't you just let me know? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, Stevo985 said: It doesn't make the players better though does it. Unless you think off the book payments has made Kevin De Bruyne into a world class player? it allows Man City to buy MORE players who are that good and pay them more to attract them. Which is a very bad thing. Nobody has disputed this What? It literally meant they could buy better players. Making the players they have on the pitch, better players than they would have bought otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, bobzy said: I've just said I can't be bothered. Can't you just let me know? Thank you. What do the work for you? No. I'll leave this Blue Moon thread immediately and go back to Villa Talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 Just now, GlobalVillan said: What? It literally meant they could buy better players. Yes I know. I literally said this. Nobody is disputing this 1 minute ago, GlobalVillan said: Making the players they have on the pitch, better players than they would have bought otherwise. Nobody is disputing this. What are you talking about? bobzy's point was that very good players still have to be coached and improved etc. i.e. Pep has still done something. Nobody has said he hasn't had an advantage. You're arguing with yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, GlobalVillan said: What do the work for you? No. I'll leave this Blue Moon thread immediately and go back to Villa Talk. Look, you're obviously far more read up on these charges than I am. You've already said to me "I suggest you research what the charges are and then you'd stop writing such stuff" so you obviously know very well what you're talking about. Why can't you just tell me which players have been paid off the books or any level of illegal spending? Surely you can do that, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Of the 115 charges pending, several relate to the actual salaries to managers like Mancini and the wages of talent signed between 2010-16. They massively cooked the books to get where they are now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 32 minutes ago, bobzy said: The Lance Armstrong comparison is nowhere near bang on. Cycling is almost entirely an endurance sport where taking a drug (or, in Armstrong's case, multiple differing drugs) would lead to a huge advantage. You'd be looking at a race and witnessing the destruction of other riders by someone obviously far better. Meanwhile; money doesn't guarantee anything in football - just look at Chelsea. Man City have overspent against a rule (probably) and - worse, for me I think - have then tried to cover it up. However, this doesn't mean that all the players on the pitch are suddenly much better. They need to be coached and managed. It's fine to acknowledge that Guardiola is a fantastic coach irrespective of whatever breach has happened. (As an aside, how much are they charged as having broken FFP by? Are we talking £40m? £200m? £1bn? Does anyone know?) We seem to be debating levels of cheating. In both examples someone has benefitted from cheating to gain an advantage over their opponents. Pep has had an unfair advantage over other clubs because he's managing a team that cheated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: Look, you're obviously far more read up on these charges than I am. You've already said to me "I suggest you research what the charges are and then you'd stop writing such stuff" so you obviously know very well what you're talking about. Why can't you just tell me which players have been paid off the books or any level of illegal spending? Surely you can do that, no? There's nothing about specific people apart from mancini. But they've spent a decade committing financial fraud which allows them an advantage over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: Blindly? Guardiola has used PED's at several clubs. He is a cheat just like his club. And those PEDs help him be a better manager how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 35 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Not that it's a particularly relevant comparison, but they literally do I'll take your word for it but I've not heard anything but negatives about the man since it all came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, DCJonah said: There's nothing about specific people apart from mancini. But they've spent a decade committing financial fraud which allows them an advantage over others. Yeah, I thought this was the case - curious why @GlobalVillan couldn't just mention it, yet has insight on players being paid off the books. Ah well. They've obviously had an advantage over the rest of the teams by doing what they've done; I'd just like to know what the level is before I accuse them of the biggest cheating scandal of all time. It seems not much is actually out there; whereas we know exactly what Everton were charged for and the amount they had overspent by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: And those PEDs help him be a better manager how? Just shows a history of cheating. Speaks to his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Yeah, I thought this was the case - curious why @GlobalVillan couldn't just mention it, yet has insight on players being paid off the books. Ah well. They've obviously had an advantage over the rest of the teams by doing what they've done; I'd just like to know what the level is before I accuse them of the biggest cheating scandal of all time. It seems not much is actually out there; whereas we know exactly what Everton were charged for and the amount they had overspent by. There's quite a lot out there. The leaked emails that led to the initial ban from the champs league are out there. Honestly if you haven't read them I suggest you do. It's pure financial fraud. The massive fine the 'innocent team' had to pay is out there. Edited February 14 by DCJonah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: We seem to be debating levels of cheating. In both examples someone has benefitted from cheating to gain an advantage over their opponents. Pep has had an unfair advantage over other clubs because he's managing a team that cheated I'd say more the impact of cheating, rather than the levels. Drugs into a rider to boost their performance and make them markedly better than anyone else is a huge impact. Spending a lot of money illegally is also a huge advantage, but not one that makes your team suddenly amazing. You still need the right coach, the right players. So, yes, advantage and wrong, stain on the game etc - but just not the same immediate impact as Armstrong, which is why I said the comparison isn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: I'd say more the impact of cheating, rather than the levels. Drugs into a rider to boost their performance and make them markedly better than anyone else is a huge impact. Spending a lot of money illegally is also a huge advantage, but not one that makes your team suddenly amazing. You still need the right coach, the right players. So, yes, advantage and wrong, stain on the game etc - but just not the same immediate impact as Armstrong, which is why I said the comparison isn't good. I disagree. Would everyone who took the same drugs have dominated to the level Armstrong did? You could argue he still had to run the races just as pep has to manage the squad. Cheating is cheating. Man city emails. Quote A thread explaining leaked emails from Manchester City is going viral after the club were charged by the Premier League for financial breaches.City have been accused of breaching more than 100 financial regulations by the Premier League and have referred the breaches to an independent commission This is well worth a read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DCJonah said: There's quite a lot out there. The leaked emails that led to the initial ban from the champs league are out there. Honestly if you haven't read them I suggest you do. It's pure financial fraud. The massive fine the 'innocent team' had to pay is out there. I watched a documentary on it; I remember emails about moving money between different companies to ensure the right amount shows in the books and how certain things weren't to be mentioned but I don't recall how much their overspend/breach was or how many of the charges relate to fraud rather than an overspend et al. Edit: Doh, you've responded since Thank you. Edited February 14 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 SPIEGEL did a 4 part series about the City emails in 2018. From part 1: City, though, was in danger of violating exactly that stipulation. "We will have a shortfall of 9.9m pounds in order to comply with UEFA FFP this season," Man City's Chief Financial Officer Jorge Chumillas wrote in an internal email. "The deficit is due to RM (eds: a reference to Roberto Mancini) termination. I think that the only solution left would be an additional amount of AD (eds: Abu Dhabi) sponsorship revenues that covers this gap. To dodge UEFA sanctions, Man City management came up with a few creative proposals. "We could do a backdated deal for the next two years (...) paid up front," suggested club executive Simon Pearce. CEO Ferran Soriano, meanwhile, suggested having sponsors pay the team the contractually obligated bonus for winning the FA cup -- even though Man City hadn't won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 22 minutes ago, villa4europe said: And those PEDs help him be a better manager how? Once a Cheat always a cheat. Barca in a ref scandal now as well 2009 Champions League semi final ahould be reviewed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts