DCJonah Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Like I said, it's underrated... Couldn't possibly have been pep He clearly did something good that year. Underrated is a stretch. My original point was other managers people compare to pep never came and inherited that level of squad. Fergie certainly didn't. Wenger didn't. Klopp didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: He clearly did something good that year. Underrated is a stretch. My original point was other managers people compare to pep never came and inherited that level of squad. Fergie certainly didn't. Wenger didn't. Klopp didn't. No they didn't They also didn't have a period of dominance like pep's barca either People can't see past the players, in reality he did something incredible there For whatever reason people also only see the players he kept and not the ones he got rid of, the names he got rid of is mad and a big part in his success there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, villa4europe said: No they didn't They also didn't have a period of dominance like pep's barca either People can't see past the players, in reality he did something incredible there For whatever reason people also only see the players he kept and not the ones he got rid of, the names he got rid of is mad and a big part in his success there The players he got rid of hardly played the season before. Ronaldinho, Deco and Etoo were mainly injured. People forget he was desperate get rid of Etoo that summer and then did the next summer in his typical genius way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 13 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13 Plenty of other managers have gone to teams where they have every advantage pep has and none of them have had the success he has had. The dismissal of anything good he does “because money” is lazy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Plenty of other managers have gone to teams where they have every advantage pep has and none of them have had the success he has had. The dismissal of anything good he does “because money” is lazy It's because he has money, it's because of the players, it's because the manager before him was underachieving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 13 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13 33 minutes ago, villa4europe said: It's because he has money, it's because of the players, it's because the manager before him was underachieving... Anyone with that much money would have the same success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Anyone with that much money would have the same success Poch is a fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 My view on this is that Pep is clearly an outstanding manager and arguably the best of our time. But he does remain unproven in situations where he doesn’t have world class players immediately at his disposal. People are forgetting that he finished 3rd in his first season in England. It’s not to say that he couldn’t do what say Klopp has done having spent much less money, just that it’s unproven. By the same token I’ve no idea whether Klopp could take City to the level of dominance that pep has done had he the same resources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted February 13 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13 Just now, JPJCB said: My view on this is that Pep is clearly an outstanding manager and arguably the best of our time. But he does remain unproven in situations where he doesn’t have world class players immediately at his disposal. People are forgetting that he finished 3rd in his first season in England. It’s not to say that he couldn’t do what say Klopp has done having spent much less money, just that it’s unproven. By the same token I’ve no idea whether Klopp could take City to the level of dominance that pep has done had he the same resources Yeah but when you can pull all the best looking birds why bother with the mingers? Pep only had experience of the B Team at Barca then did what he did with the first team. Could have tanked but has just kept winning things at top clubs with big funds. He has not had to step down a level yet like say Mourinho has. There might come a time when he can only get a lower level club and we will see if he has the minerals. I doubt he will bother though probably retire to the UAE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Pep would manage/coach Chelsea's players into a top 4 trophy winning team, I've no doubt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, S-Platt said: Yeah but when you can pull all the best looking birds why bother with the mingers? Pep only had experience of the B Team at Barca then did what he did with the first team. Could have tanked but has just kept winning things at top clubs with big funds. He has not had to step down a level yet like say Mourinho has. There might come a time when he can only get a lower level club and we will see if he has the minerals. I doubt he will bother though probably retire to the UAE. He'll either retire before that happens or yeah eventually the game will move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 9 hours ago, JPJCB said: My view on this is that Pep is clearly an outstanding manager and arguably the best of our time. But he does remain unproven in situations where he doesn’t have world class players immediately at his disposal. People are forgetting that he finished 3rd in his first season in England. It’s not to say that he couldn’t do what say Klopp has done having spent much less money, just that it’s unproven. By the same token I’ve no idea whether Klopp could take City to the level of dominance that pep has done had he the same resources And we’ll never know if Alex Ferguson could take a non league team up to the championship, or if Zinedine Zidane could save Sheffield Utd from relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: And we’ll never know if Alex Ferguson could take a non league team up to the championship, or if Zinedine Zidane could save Sheffield Utd from relegation. Indeed- although my example is somewhat more meaningful as it’s discussing a broad category of management where Pep is unproven (getting the best out of non-world class players). I don’t know if Ferguson could take a non-league team up but I do know that he won the league with the likes of rafael, Tom cleverly, Phil jones and others of mid-low table quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: And we’ll never know if Alex Ferguson could take a non league team up to the championship, or if Zinedine Zidane could save Sheffield Utd from relegation. Like breaking the Old Firm monopoly and winning the Scottish League three times with Aberdeen and winning them a European trophy? Only 5 times has a non Old Firm team won the league in the last 60 years and Fergie did it 3 times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 12 minutes ago, Zatman said: Like breaking the Old Firm monopoly and winning the Scottish League three times with Aberdeen and winning them a European trophy? Only 5 times has a non Old Firm team won the league in the last 60 years and Fergie did it 3 times What’s that got to do with my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 21 minutes ago, JPJCB said: Indeed- although my example is somewhat more meaningful as it’s discussing a broad category of management where Pep is unproven (getting the best out of non-world class players). I don’t know if Ferguson could take a non-league team up but I do know that he won the league with the likes of rafael, Tom cleverly, Phil jones and others of mid-low table quality My point is plenty of good managers aren’t proven at certain things. It doesnt mean they’re not good managers. Pep isn’t proven at doing well with non world class players. That doesn’t mean he’s not good, or that he couldn’t. It just means he’s so good at getting the best out of very good football teams that he’ll probably never need to manage a team of non-world class players. I happen to think there’s every chance Pep would be an excellent manager regardless of the squad at his disposal. But I guess we’ll never know. It’s very similar to the argument that Messi isn’t the goat because he only ever played for Barcelona for most of his career who were a world class team. He doesn’t have to go and play for Stoke just to prove himself. He’s good enough that he’ll never have to do that. Plenty of managers have managed squads like the Man City and Barcelona squads and not even had a fraction of the success Pep has had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 50 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: And we’ll never know if Alex Ferguson could take a non league team up to the championship, or if Zinedine Zidane could save Sheffield Utd from relegation. But we do know that Ferguson could win continental competitions with Aberdeen and be the last person to break the Old Firm… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: What’s that got to do with my point? Because breaking up the Old Firm is as good or better than the achievements you mentioned. Certainly bigger than saving Sheffield United from relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Plenty of other managers have gone to teams where they have every advantage pep has and none of them have had the success he has had. The dismissal of anything good he does “because money” is lazy I can't think of a single manager who have had all the advantages pep has had. Inherits world class players including the greatest of all time. Goes to a league where only one team wins the league before and after he was there. Joins a team with a decade of financial fraud to spend over a billion building his squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I wonder how his legacy is viewed if Man City get punished the way they should. There'd be only 1 club you could then talk about having success with. Already at the moment, he's done nothing more impressive than what Fergie did, or Wenger or even Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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