chrisp65 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The same sentiment as above, I don't mean to be glib but we cannot tell who was a rebel / terrorist / freedom fighter etc yet as there hasn't been a 'winner' and so the definitive story of the winner hasn't been composed yet. With a list of the other sides crimes and a list of the winning side's justifications. War and civil war is, unfortunately, about as cliched a situation as its possible to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Despite the "one man's freedom fighter...." cliché, the people who blew up the tube train, or the towers, or the pub were not "rebels" in anyone's eyes...Why anyone's eyes?Are you purporting to speak for every person on the planet existing now or to come in the future?Perhaps we ought to speak a little more accurately about all people in the situations you describe above; those on both sides in Syria; those fighting on both sides in Iraq or Afghanistan; those 'clearing' sit-ins in Cairo, and those picking targets off a kill list in the USA for drones to take out on the other side of the world. They are killers, surely? The fact is, if they are taking lives (whether it be by knife, gun, chemical weapons, explosives in a bag or strapped to their chest or remotely via someone giving orders and someone else pushing a button) and therefore they are killing.Rather than having an argument about semantics as to what precisely constitutes a rebel/an insurgent/a terrorist/a freedom fighter, we may then agree that a favourable or unfavourable opinion of those doing the killing boils down to a subjective assessment of the justifications for the killing(s).Perhaps also we may end up thinking more deeply about the situations themselves and the circumstances in which events happen as opposed to 'lazily and thoughtlessly' adopting a pro or anti stance depending upon whichever positive or pejorative term which has become standard for the individuals or groups involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 250 Israeli lobbyists pressing for illegal US attack on Syria. http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/aipac-deploying-250-lobbyists-to-push-for-u-s-strike-on-syria-haaretz-source/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Seems the Syrians have conducted a probe towards RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus with a couple of SU-24's. Maybe Assad is disappointed that we've declined to get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2013 Despite the "one man's freedom fighter...." cliché, the people who blew up the tube train, or the towers, or the pub were not "rebels" in anyone's eyes... ...Are you purporting to speak for every person on the planet existing now or to come in the future?.....Perhaps we ought to speak a little more accurately about all people in the situations you describe...Rather than having an argument about semantics ...Perhaps also we may end up thinking more deeply... as opposed to 'lazily and thoughtlessly' adopting a pro or anti stance... Way to go, Snowy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ^ Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Interesting interview with a Belgian supporter of the opposition (who was nevertheless imprisoned by them for some months and has only just been released), to the effect that on the basis of conversations he overheard while in captivity, he believes it was not Assad's forces which released the CWs. Here. I'm afraid it's in French... It's only timed an hour ago. Perhaps we'll see a bit more information about the person interviewed and the basis for his comments a little later on. Not that it will change anything in the slo-mo replay of Iraq that we're sliding into. Latest instalment: make some impossible demands, then adopt posture of righteous indignation when they are not complied with. Does Kerry know he's just replaying the scenes from ten years ago? He can't be unfamiliar with it, surely? Or does he think it leads to a series of lecture tours, a "foundation", and a title of "peace envoy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Interesting interview with a Belgian supporter of the opposition (who was nevertheless imprisoned by them for some months and has only just been released), to the effect that on the basis of conversations he overheard while in captivity, he believes it was not Assad's forces which released the CWs. Here. I'm afraid it's in French... well that's clearly a credible source ... you've convinced me !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Interesting interview with a Belgian supporter of the opposition (who was nevertheless imprisoned by them for some months and has only just been released), to the effect that on the basis of conversations he overheard while in captivity, he believes it was not Assad's forces which released the CWs. Here. I'm afraid it's in French... well that's clearly a credible source ... you've convinced me !! It's actually the same basis as the US claims - "We heard this conversation. No, we can't prove it, but we heard it." Except in their case, it seems the US misrepresented the content of the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think Tony was hoping for a US-led missile strike on France.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I think Tony was hoping for a US-led missile strike on France.... you know the Yanks , the missiles will probably land on London instead of Paris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Bonus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Syria crisis: Russia urges Assad to give up chemical weapons Russia has asked Syria to put its chemical weapons stockpile under "international control" in a bid to avoid US military strikes, and then have them destroyed. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the offer was made during talks with his Syrian counterpart, and he hoped for a quick response from Damascus. Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has again denied using chemical weapons. The US is threatening strikes, accusing the Assad regime of war crimes. US Secretary of State John Kerry, in Europe to garner support for the military action, has once again warned that taking no action is riskier than launching strikes. When asked at a news conference whether there was anything Mr Assad could do to avoid military action, Mr Kerry replied that he could hand over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons within the next week. US officials later clarified that Mr Kerry was making a "rhetorical argument" rather than a serious offer. However, Mr Lavrov later called on Syria to "place the chemical weapons under international control and then have them destroyed". He said the offer had been made to Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem during talks in Moscow. Mr Lavrov said he did not know whether Damascus would agree, but Russia was hoping for a positive response. The US accuses Mr Assad's forces of killing 1,429 people in a poison-gas attack on 21 August on the outskirts of the capital, Damascus. Mr Assad's government blames the attack on rebels fighting to overthrow him in the country's two-and-a-half-year civil war, which has claimed some 100,000 lives, according to UN estimates. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24022866 Edited September 9, 2013 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 No matter how this plays out, Obama has been exposed as totally inept even in doing the wrong thing. He showed his hand 10 days ago, but had to backtrack. Now every stockpile of chemical weapons Assad has has surely been moved, rendering whatever strike plan Obama had useless now. Well done, Barack. Masterful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Way to go, Snowy.I'm not sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 maqroll, on 09 Sept 2013 - 4:28 PM, said: No matter how this plays out, Obama has been exposed as totally inept even in doing the wrong thing. He showed his hand 10 days ago, but had to backtrack. Now every stockpile of chemical weapons Assad has has surely been moved, rendering whatever strike plan Obama had useless now. Well done, Barack. Masterful. isn't that the story of his presidency ? (probably OT ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 10, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think Tony was hoping for a US-led missile strike on France.... Weren't we all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Seems Syria have accepted the proposal to surrender it's chemical weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 No matter how this plays out, Obama has been exposed as totally inept even in doing the wrong thing. He showed his hand 10 days ago, but had to backtrack. Now every stockpile of chemical weapons Assad has has surely been moved, rendering whatever strike plan Obama had useless now. Well done, Barack. Masterful. Yep, almost as well played as Cameron, ie not very. So that's France on their own now then. France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts