PauloBarnesi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Finally Two men have been convicted of the racist murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence, 18 years after he was stabbed to death at a south London bus stop. Gary Dobson and David Norris were found guilty by an Old Bailey jury after a trial based on forensic evidence. Scientists found a tiny blood stain on Dobson's jacket that could only have come from Mr Lawrence. As he was led away, Dobson told the jury they had condemned an "innocent man". Sentencing will be on Wednesday. Stephen's parents, Doreen and Neville, wept in court as the jury found both men guilty. Duwayne Brooks, Stephen's best friend who had been with him on the night of the murder, tweeted: "Some justice at last". Gary Dobson's mother, who told the trial her son had been at home during the attack, wept in the public gallery of Court 16. 'Prime suspects' The original failed investigation led to the Metropolitan Police being branded as institutionally racist. Gary Dobson and David Norris: Denied murder Stephen Lawrence was 18 when he was stabbed to death near a bus stop in Eltham, south London, in April 1993. Police identified five men who were later named in a damning public inquiry as the "prime suspects". By that time, there had already been a catalogue of police errors and two failed prosecutions, one brought by Stephen's parents, Doreen and Neville Lawrence. But in a four-year-long cold case review, a fresh team of forensic scientists uncovered microscopic evidence linking the men to the murder - evidence that the police had held all along. The material - bloodstains, clothing fibres and a single hair belonging to the teenager - were recovered from the clothes of the suspects which had been seized in 1993. Scientists recovered the material using advanced techniques which were not available to the original case scientists. Dobson, 36, and Norris, 35, denied the murder. They said their clothing had been contaminated as police mixed up evidence down the years. Detectives spent months establishing the movements and handling of the exhibits since 1993 - and the jury were told that contamination was implausible. Gary Dobson was jailed in 2010 for drugs trafficking. He is among a small number of men to have been tried twice for the same crime after the Court of Appeal quashed his 1996 acquittal for the murder. 'Unique case' In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Panorama, Stephen Lawrence's mother Doreen said: "I don't forgive the boys who killed Stephen. They don't think they have done anything wrong. Continue reading the main story 18 YEARS ON: THE EVIDENCE Tiny bloodstain on Dobson's jacket Scientists found DNA and matched it to Stephen Clothing fibres matched victim's clothes Single 2mm hair matched to teenager "They took away Stephen's life and there is nothing in their behaviour or anything to show they they regret what their actions have done and the pain it has caused us as a family." Acting Assistant Commissioner Cressida Dick, who ordered the 2006 cold case review that led to the convictions, said the case had been extremely important for the Lawrence family, the Metropolitan Police and society at large. She said: "It's a matter of huge regret to the Met that it has taken 18 years to get to this point. "It has been a unique case in policing. Firstly the horrible, horrible nature of the attack on the night. The time in which it has taken to bring anybody to justice and the tireless campaigning of the Lawrences. "There is no comparable case. All homicide cases are terrible, but for us it is a very important case. Most importantly we wanted to be able to bring people to justice for the killing and try to give Doreen and Neville Lawrence and their family some sense of justice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hopefully the lawrence family can get some kind of peace now but i have a nagging 'gut' feeling it wasnt them. I have no idea why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well I'm pretty sure it was them, but I had a nagging feeling they were going to get off (again). Pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They are both definitely scum and it wouldnt surprise me if they were guilty but im not 100% convinced from what we have heard and read in the news. Based on that alone I wouldnt feel happy convicting someone on a chance it was them. Of course we dont know about everything the jury has heard I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2012 I feel similarly. I think they are guilty. But were I in that jury, from what I have heard of the evidence I would not feel safe convicting them. (I may have of course missed some of the evidence as I've not followed the case that closely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Tbh I never thought they would receive a fair trail from the off so was only expecting a Guilty verdict Not saying I doubt their guilt but any jury in this case has to have been prejudiced by the media since the original trial Didn't Barry George also have microscopic particles on him that was deemed to be inadmissible at his appeal due to contamination and what not ?? .. I've a feeling I know on what grounds the appeal is going to be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Did they do it? I think yes, What I do remember is them leaving the Court when they got found not guilty the first time around but double jeapody wasnt as it is now then so maybe they could have been smug back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myb Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Have no doubt that they're guilty and subsequent reports about their behaviour, background and tip offs to the police leave me in no doubt whatsoever. Hope the scumbags rot in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 It seems reasonably certain they were part of the gang, thus would therefore be guilty on the basis of common cause. But what happens if there's a fight at a football match and someone is stabbed... is everyone guilty? There is nothing to suggest either of these two wielded the knife; so I'm not entirely happy about this verdict. As for the forensic evidence... what I gleaned from the reporting suggested every liklihood of a reasonable doubt. Being ignorant pricks should not precude them from receiving a fair trial and this never looked like one. Incidentally, on the subject of Barry George, I knew a number of prominent Serbs in London and they were all proud of having evened the score with Jill Dando following her report on the bombing of the TV Centre in Belgrade. I never thought much of his conviction either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Incidentally, on the subject of Barry George, I knew a number of prominent Serbs in London and they were all proud of having evened the score with Jill Dando following her report on the bombing of the TV Centre in Belgrade. I never thought much of his conviction either. Oh come on. I know a number of blokes who all say it was them on the balcony of one Iranian Embassy. If they were all there, it would have been like **** Woodstock. You don't murder someone in the way she was and then boast to your mates about how pleased you ate about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Apparently they will be sentenced as minors due to being 16 and 17 at the time, so will get substantially reduced terms in clink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In terms of messing up at work what happened to the Police ? 18 years to get what was at the time a open and shut case is criminal, some of the Police should have got time as well. Any other profession with a similar mistake I suspect, just not the Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Oh come on. I know a number of blokes who all say it was them on the balcony of one Iranian Embassy. If they were all there, it would have been like **** Woodstock. You don't murder someone in the way she was and then boast to your mates about how pleased you ate about it. Fair point... but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. None of the Serbs I spoke to claimed to have actually shot Dando themselves; but a number of them were both convinced and delighted their fellow countrymen had dished up her just deserts. The significant fact being that this subject was discussed prior to her being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Excellent news. from what I read of the details, guilty as hell, and scumbags to boot. Late justice, but still justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Apparently they will be sentenced as minors due to being 16 and 17 at the time, so will get substantially reduced terms in clink. Yep. Minimum tariff is 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Apparently they will be sentenced as minors due to being 16 and 17 at the time, so will get substantially reduced terms in clink. Yep. Minimum tariff is 12 years. Which is, in fairness, the correct decision as painful as it may seem. As for their guilt, they have been proven guilty in a court of law and as far as I'm concerned justice has been served. I hope they stick them in a wing with a load of black people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Has anybody said what is going to happen to the other three by the way? They all still live in and around Eltham, and at the time the two Acourt brothers were supposed to be the main offenders. Are the police going to go after them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 On the news last night the reporter said that police made no secret of the fact they have no leads to follow up with. Not exactly covering themselves in glory on this case are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I hope they stick them in a wing with a load of black people. Would that make them better people though & do the people on that wing deserve to be locked up with scum like that ? I think they would get done in a wing with white people also, let's be honest we would all like to give them a slap. Little blokes in a gang killing people at bus stops, proper tough guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I hope they stick them in a wing with a load of black people. Would that make them better people though & do the people on that wing deserve to be locked up with scum like that ? I think they would get done in a wing with white people also, let's be honest we would all like to give them a slap. Little blokes in a gang killing people at bus stops, proper tough guys. It was kind of said tongue in cheek. However, it is a shame that they can only be sentenced as minors. Though I agree with the decision as it stands (i.e. it's the law) it is imperfect. Rehabilitation for two men such as these should not be the only means to an end, they deserve punishment. The fact that they have shown no remorse as adults perhaps could, should lead to a change in the law. In the meanwhile, I hope their time spent at her majesties service is made as unbearably uncomfortable as possible. I know "kids" like they were, I know men like they are now. They deserve to suffer. Act like an animal you should be treated like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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