bickster Posted March 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2012 I like Carlos, but he couldn't trap a bag of cement & his passing and crossing are generally not good Except he got the assist yesterday and very well he did too. So is Cahill, as is Mellberg (still) Yet MON couldnt get rid of them quick enough then spent tens of millions on crap CB's Ah the old Cahill chestnut with added Melberg factor. Cahill at the time was our fourth best Centre Back, he was far from the finished product at VP, his goal against sha blinds many many people to his failings at the time, he needed games to improve, he wasn't going to get them here. He wanted to leave to get first team football, which he got at Bolton (you know Bolton - a rather dull team, who seemed to like buying our players to achieve nothing) and has only just left them for Chelsea's bench. Mellberg also wanted to leave for pastures new, he turned down a new contract without any hint of a falling out at VP. He wanted a deserved crack at Serie A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRoy Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Give the guy a new contract!!! Our best CB and can play anywhere across the back four. A handy player. Flog Dunne or Collins or both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 A great player who the club should be doing everything they can to hold on to him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areyalistenin Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Always been a good player has Carlos. What amazes me is the McTwat couldn't see that and was willing to let him go. Proves he knows **** all about anything. Roll on Saturday when we can let him know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2012 40k a week Not my understanding, about £30-32k a week iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I like Carlos, but he couldn't trap a bag of cement & his passing and crossing are generally not good Except he got the assist yesterday and very well he did too. So is Cahill, as is Mellberg (still) Yet MON couldnt get rid of them quick enough then spent tens of millions on crap CB's Ah the old Cahill chestnut with added Melberg factor. Cahill at the time was our fourth best Centre Back, he was far from the finished product at VP, his goal against sha blinds many many people to his failings at the time, he needed games to improve, he wasn't going to get them here. He wanted to leave to get first team football, which he got at Bolton (you know Bolton - a rather dull team, who seemed to like buying our players to achieve nothing) and has only just left them for Chelsea's bench. Mellberg also wanted to leave for pastures new, he turned down a new contract without any hint of a falling out at VP. He wanted a deserved crack at Serie A. Leave it out. Cahill's goal against SHA was nothing to do with the fact that he was CLEARLY a much better player than either Davies or Knight. As for Mellberg, I don't suppose playing him out of position at right back really made him feel wanted in his preferred position. Let's face facts, when it came to central defenders, O'Neill was an absolute wazzock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 When Cahill left, Davies was a better player, even Zat Knight probably was. That's what I mean about THAT goal, it's blinding you into thinking Cahill was good back then, he wasn't, he was a kid, a kid that had a lot of rough edges to knock off him. I'll admit I thought he would be a good player in the future and I wish that future was at VP but he'd had a taste of first team football because of circumstance, he scored that goal and somehow because of that everyone forgets he was far far from the finished article, he would jump into tackles enthusiastically but often it was the wrong decision, he had an awful lot to learn back then imo. He's come on leaps and bounds since then because he went to a team that would play him. I honestly got the impression that Mellberg had decided leave before he was played at RB, in fact I always thought it was his wanting to leave that prompted the right back option for him, well that and us not having a decent option there. Collins & Dunne were a great partnership under MON, their undoing came under Houllier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cizzler Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 When Cahill left, Davies was a better player, even Zat Knight probably was. That's what I mean about THAT goal, it's blinding you into thinking Cahill was good back then, he wasn't, he was a kid, a kid that had a lot of rough edges to knock off him. I'll admit I thought he would be a good player in the future and I wish that future was at VP but he'd had a taste of first team football because of circumstance, he scored that goal and somehow because of that everyone forgets he was far far from the finished article, he would jump into tackles enthusiastically but often it was the wrong decision, he had an awful lot to learn back then imo. He's come on leaps and bounds since then because he went to a team that would play him. I honestly got the impression that Mellberg had decided leave before he was played at RB, in fact I always thought it was his wanting to leave that prompted the right back option for him, well that and us not having a decent option there. Collins & Dunne were a great partnership under MON, their undoing came under Houllier. I accept that Cahill may not have been quite as good as Davies or Knight at the time - but do you think it would have been worth us (and thus not Bolton) throwing him in at the deep end? Obviously he was good enough for Premiership football - he went straight into the mid-table Bolton team. So the risk wasn't humongous. In hindsight, in my opinion, it would seem O'Neill made that mistake. What would we have lost by playing him? Potentially a few more games. So we may not have finished 6th and bailed the Europa. Who knows. I don't even think he is that good a centre half. Comfortable on the ball, sure. But not the answer to England or Chelsea's defensive issues. However, he is better than the players we have at the moment and therein lies the reason for this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cule4life Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I like Carlos, but he couldn't trap a bag of cement & his passing and crossing are generally not good Except he got the assist yesterday and very well he did too. So is Cahill, as is Mellberg (still) Yet MON couldnt get rid of them quick enough then spent tens of millions on crap CB's Ah the old Cahill chestnut with added Melberg factor. Cahill at the time was our fourth best Centre Back, he was far from the finished product at VP, his goal against sha blinds many many people to his failings at the time, he needed games to improve, he wasn't going to get them here. He wanted to leave to get first team football, which he got at Bolton (you know Bolton - a rather dull team, who seemed to like buying our players to achieve nothing) and has only just left them for Chelsea's bench. Mellberg also wanted to leave for pastures new, he turned down a new contract without any hint of a falling out at VP. He wanted a deserved crack at Serie A. Leave it out. Cahill's goal against SHA was nothing to do with the fact that he was CLEARLY a much better player than either Davies or Knight. As for Mellberg, I don't suppose playing him out of position at right back really made him feel wanted in his preferred position. Let's face facts, when it came to central defenders, O'Neill was an absolute wazzock. THIS !!!! O Neill was a tool when it came to CB's i mean selling the likes of Cahill and then spunking 10m on Davies is about as stupid as when Arsenal signed Francis Jeffers instead of Van Nistelrooy xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted March 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2012 Collins & Dunne were a great partnership under MON, their undoing came under Houllier. 7-0 at Chelsea screams otherwise. While I'm too lazy to ever look it up in VillaTalk archives of matches played, I think you'll find that the partnership was faltering during the end of MON's last year in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cule4life Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Always been a good player has Carlos. What amazes me is the McTwat couldn't see that and was willing to let him go. Proves he knows **** all about anything. Roll on Saturday when we can let him know. Saturday i can see a very hostile atmosphere i really can. I cant say im surprised MCleish is so hated i really cant as his footballing knowledge is generally garbage. I can see a protest (Rightfully so) and the crowd will be very Anti MClueless. Not that MClueless will care he will be paid weekly so he's laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Dunne Collins Davies Knight Cuellar £35m and counting in fees alone probably double when you factor in wages Have I missed any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 Collins & Dunne were a great partnership under MON, their undoing came under Houllier. 7-0 at Chelsea screams otherwise. While I'm too lazy to ever look it up in VillaTalk archives of matches played, I think you'll find that the partnership was faltering during the end of MON's last year in charge. Does it? We only conceded 39 goals in the 38 league games of that season, the lowest total league goals conceded in any of MON's seasons. So if you take out the freak 7-0 result, thats 32 goals in 37 games, thats almost title winning form in defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted March 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2012 Does it? We only conceded 39 goals in the 38 league games of that season, the lowest total league goals conceded in any of MON's seasons. So if you take out the freak 7-0 result, thats 32 goals in 37 games, thats almost title winning form in defence. Indeed it was. However, 17 of our goals conceded were in our last 10 games (includes the chelsea result) 7 of those were in our last 6 games (does NOT include the chelsea result) Results here Hard to tell from pure stats as you could argue it wasn't much of a change. Taking a look at the Villatalk match reviews would probably confirm it one way or the other.... .... but, alas, I am too lazy to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 So Chelsea result apart we were only conceding a goal a game, whereas before we were just under a goal a game, not sure I get your point tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hard to tell from pure stats as you could argue it wasn't much of a change. . Not that hard. The stats bear out what happened... Chelsea was one of those freak results, the rest of the season we had an excellent defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 He should have been in the team all season just as he should have kept his place in the side last season after the Wolves game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 A great player who the club should be doing everything they can to hold on to him.. Yet they've spent most of the last 12 months trying to get rid of him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizme Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 He will leave at the end of season... Another 30k saved on wages/week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 5, 2012 Bright future.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts