LondonLax Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Forgive my ignorance of British law, but why is this a criminal case? It would seem to me that the best option would be to let the FA sort it out... to bring the government into it seems heavy handed and a waste of time. Why is it a criminal case? It is being held at a magistrates court not a crown court and its being heard because he is alleged to have broken the law. Despite widely held beliefs and much evidence to the contrary footballers like everyone else are subject to the law of the land. Should the FA be sorting it out? Never will you find a more feckless, gutless weak and inept group. They bottled dealing with the Terry situation just as they always bottle these sort of situations especially when they are an England player. Heavy handed and a waste of time? No not really. A women in this country was recently jailed for making racist remarks on a tube, why should Terry if guilty be let a similar charge simply because he is a footballer? Perhaps the question should be if found guilty why isn't he facing the same sort of punishment as the women on the tube rather than a potential fine of £2'500? The idea of British law is that under it we are all equal, we know it isn't true when it comes to the rich, footballer and politicians but at least this trial gets us somewhere close. Footballers seem to get away with everything, from hitting a DJ because they won't play their favourite tune to well... you name it. If guilty, and it appears to me he is guilty I hope he is punished even if the punishment is watered down so much as to be irrelevant. I think you have missed his point. For an American, the idea that the government can punish you for something you say is an alien concept. I am not sure where I stand on the right to have freedom of speech myself. No point missed at all, he didn't mention anything about freedom of speech, in fact he said he should have been punished by the FA rather than the law shows that. An FA punishment would be a punishment for bad behavior in a game, similar to the Suarez case. He was asking why it is a criminal charge in this country, in essence why the government can arrest you and charge you for saying the wrong thing. Freedom of expression is something that Americans would take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2012 Still no point missed, as I said its a criminal act in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Still no point missed, as I said its a criminal act in this country. Yes, and he was asking why it is a criminal act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2012 And the answer to that is because it is against the law in this country. If he wants a more detailed discussion as to why its against the law in this country and why you can't say anything you like to anyone then a football thread is the wrong place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 And the answer to that is because it is against the law in this country. If he wants a more detailed discussion as to why its against the law in this country and why you can't say anything you like to anyone then a football thread is the wrong place for it. :?: You are the poster who started the long post about the inadequacies of the criminal justice system, making comparisons with the case about the racist woman on the bus. It seems it would have been ok to discuss the criminal justice system on a football forum (if that had been his point) but not free speech. C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 its a criminal charge purely on the basis that someone contacted the police claiming that they seen it and registering a complaint the exact same thing could have happened with suarez / evra if someone had reported it but nobody did the woman was charged with inciting racial hatred wasnt she? different charge to what terry has been charged with, the only difference between terry and joe public is john terry has an even richer than him lawyer making sure he gets off on a technicality, same as most footballers / rich people, its the standards of the lawyers IMO that are different not necessarily their status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 What did Ashley Cole say/do? From what I read the witnesses usually stand to give evidence in the witness box. Asked by the judge to stand to give his testimony, Cole replied: "I'd rather sit down." Just makes Cole sound like even more of an arrogant prick than he already is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 For an American, the idea that the government can punish you for something you say is an alien concept. I am not sure where I stand on the right to have freedom of speech myself. I think we have the balance figured out reasonably well here. Unlike Americans, we don't have a constitutional right to free speech in this country. That doesn't mean we are denied free speech, because essentially we have it. It also means that people cant be arseholes to each other and hide behind the constitution. I think I'd rather have that than a total free for all, it's certainly more civilised in practice. The downside is that we have to trust our government not to turn into China overnight. It hasnt happened yet and we have been in this situation for hundreds of years so I wouldnt lose any sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carew_villa Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 A bit off topic, but I really don't understand the hate for Ashley Cole. Seems a decent bloke to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 FWIW, LondonLax is spot on with his interpretation of my question. It does seem like a matter best handled by the FA (even if they are notorious bunglers) rather than the government. Here in the States, we've recently had the ongoing farce of Congressional hearings into steroid use in baseball....with all that's wrong in the USA, juiced up ballplayers rank very low on the list. Talk about a waste of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 For an American, the idea that the government can punish you for something you say is an alien concept. I am not sure where I stand on the right to have freedom of speech myself. I think we have the balance figured out reasonably well here. You say that but there is a kid doing jail time for a racist 'joke' he sent to his mates on Twitter about Fabrice Muamba and another guy convicted because he joked to his friends on Twitter about blowing up the airport after his flight was cancelled. It seems like we might have taken it a step too far already I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 A bit off topic, but I really don't understand the hate for Ashley Cole. Seems a decent bloke to me. what was the line in his book? iirc something like - my agent phoned me and said they would only offer £55,000 per week, i nearly crashed my car in disgust, all i could think is how could they do this to me word removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Englands brave John Terry showing his intelligence John Terry trial: Please please please could you repeat that? Paul Cheston 11 July 2012 In a hilarious misunderstanding, John Terry was asked to repeat evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career. “Can you say, please, four times?” asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson. “Please, please, please, please,” Terry responded. Guffaws of laughter broke out around the courtroom at the misunderstanding, which was a result of the judge asking Terry to speak up. The footballer appeared confused by response from the courtroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2012 Look, I hate racism, but seriously, this is a waste of court time. It isn't like some EDL thug approaching a small child in the street and racially abusing him. It's two supposedly grown men. "Please Sir, he he called me a bad word"... "But SIR, he said I shagged Bridge's girfriend, Sir"... These people are PATHETIC. **** grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If he gets found guilty will he still be allowed to play for England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03butpau Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 For me the whole thing is just an embarassment, our national game has become a joke. I've been working in spain recently and they are finding the whole thing hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 For me the whole thing is just an embarassment, our national game has become a joke. I've been working in spain recently and they are finding the whole thing hilarious Not sure the Spanish are the best people to comment on racist gestures Remember this? or this? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/29/euro-2012-uefa-racism-fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 For me the whole thing is just an embarassment, our national game has become a joke. I've been working in spain recently and they are finding the whole thing hilarious Not sure the Spanish are the best people to comment on racist gestures Remember this? or this? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/29/euro-2012-uefa-racism-fine It's interesting how the English speaking world is hyper-sensitive to issues of racism compared to places like Spain, or Mexico, or Peru, where racism against blacks is so acceptable, they have Sambo-like cartoons that still run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Britain has become overly PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ashley Cole was asked in court yesterday if he found it a bit uncomfortable to be closely associated with an alleged racist."Not really. We're divorced now" he replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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