snowychap Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Nope. But its just after my experience in NYC where I was interrogated for 3 hours at JFK. They knew everything about me.I think that (other than in cases of actual misrepresentation) it is incumbent upon the government to satisfy themselves (and others, e.g. The Supreme Court) that people won't become stateless before they strip them of citizenship (thus the problems with some of the initial things about 'returnees' from Cameron/May in recent times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 It's more what questions they asked. I'm worried that circumstance may come in to play rather than identity. Ie the fact that I was in Pakistan at age 11 was of so much interest to them. I'm just worried that I will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also at the end they freaked me out because they said the reason I was flagged was because my name matched someone on the wanted list. Yet they knew so much about me. The guy was overly friendly which made it less nerve wracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 19, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 19, 2014 I guess they know lots of "what", but not a lot of "why", the more "what" they have, the more "why" they want to know. Take Tony on here, he's been to both Syria and Israel recently - they'd know that and they'd probably want to know why - once they were satisfied he's just a slightly unusual tourist, they'd be fine I guess. The problem with "why" of course is that it's subjective - and while Risso (I think it was Risso) is right when he says that 99% of prisoners in the UK will claim they are innocent, I'd guess that in amongst that bunch there might be one who actually is, or at least is innocent of the thing he's inside for. This is like that, amplified, the aggressive nature of rendition, the speed at which they're processed and lack of process and procedure means it's probably more likely that mistakes get made, it's most likely still a very small proportion, but the nature of the operation means there are bound to be people who are innocent (Or at least innocent of being an immediate danger to public safety) being locked up. Sadly, that last bit would be hard to prove one way or another, with there seemingly being no burden of proof required before you can start kidnapping and torturing 'suspects'. The opportunity to make this response effective in tackling terrorism in the long term has sadly been lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Nah not really. We're talking about a specific and indervidual fear. If somebody knew what I was doing when I was 11, then I wouldn't be concerned about being mistaken for another. I don't have the limitations of Islamic naming traditions (although I do have a rare name shared by Christians, Jews and Muslims!) to share Omar's specific flagging in this instance. My passport did get rejected in Cairns in the summer, unfortunately they didn't detain me in country indefinitely. Back to Omar, if it was information beyond what was possible to know from travel records, then I'd certainly find that hinky. Edited December 19, 2014 by Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Nah not really.Nah not really what?'They' don't get things wrong?Or Omariqy shouldn't be concerned because they obviously are so aware of some events that they couldn't possibly associate him with something that he hadn't done?Or is it just the same old stuff as other posts above that suggest that you have nothing to fear...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 That I had misunderstood the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 20, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2014 If you take the letter and so on to be genuine, and there's no reason not to, particularly given the various cases of mistaken identity etc. from the past, then it's not surprising people are worried and also angry. There's every reason not to. I'm sure 99% of the prison population in the UK would claim to be innocent. It's one side of a story as Trent correctly points out. you don't really think that, do you? I mean 99% of prisoners claiming innocence? Really? And secondly of course the letter written by one side is one-sided, but that isn't the point either. Yes it's conceivable that he omitted to mention a crime spree he went on or some other criminal conviction, but sadly it's much more likely that he's not been charged with, convicted of, or even asked about being involved in anything illegal. That's the concern and reason for some people's anger. It's more than "99% claim innocence, but we all know they done it" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Having read the letter, I was under the impression that it was not a legal possibility for UKGov to make a person stateless? Surely then he has a passport of another state to travel on? It seems he is suggesting Mi6 tried to recruit him in Cairo, but the timeline is hazy. He attends a wedding in 2009 yet is still in country to be allegedly stripped of citizenship in 2011? It would be interesting to see this yarn cross examined. Edited December 20, 2014 by Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 If you take the letter and so on to be genuine, and there's no reason not to, particularly given the various cases of mistaken identity etc. from the past, then it's not surprising people are worried and also angry. There's every reason not to. I'm sure 99% of the prison population in the UK would claim to be innocent. It's one side of a story as Trent correctly points out.Interesting stat. Did you get it a) from your own imagination or b ) from a unicorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Around 67-68% of Defendants plead guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) If you take the letter and so on to be genuine, and there's no reason not to, particularly given the various cases of mistaken identity etc. from the past, then it's not surprising people are worried and also angry. There's every reason not to. I'm sure 99% of the prison population in the UK would claim to be innocent. It's one side of a story as Trent correctly points out. Interesting stat. Did you get it a) from your own imagination or b ) from a unicorn? How's that Diego Garcia conspiracy going Edited December 21, 2014 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Deigo racist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Deigo racist Tbf it's been a long week I even checked it before I posted and still got it wrong !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 If you take the letter and so on to be genuine, and there's no reason not to, particularly given the various cases of mistaken identity etc. from the past, then it's not surprising people are worried and also angry. There's every reason not to. I'm sure 99% of the prison population in the UK would claim to be innocent. It's one side of a story as Trent correctly points out.Interesting stat.Did you get ita) from your own imaginationorb ) from a unicorn?Ooh you funny little scamp Peter, haven't you got some scallops you should be preparing or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Having read the letter, I was under the impression that it was not a legal possibility for UKGov to make a person stateless? Surely then he has a passport of another state to travel on?I don't think that's necessarily correct.According to Brokenshire in parliament:The current position under section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981, as amended by the previous Labour Government in 2002 and 2006, is that the Home Secretary can deprive a British citizen of their citizenship in two scenarios. The first is when the person acquired it using fraud, false representation or concealment of a material fact. That essentially means that they used deception to obtain citizenship for which they were not eligible or, had we known the full and true facts, we would not have granted the application. In such cases, the person involved may be left stateless. The second scenario is when the Home Secretary is satisfied that deprivation is“conducive to the public good”and the person would not be left stateless as a result.If, therefore, someone were deprived of their citizenship for the second reason, it may well be that they are satisfied that someone is not rendered stateless as long as they have (or are eligibile for) citizenship of another state whether or not they have the documentation that goes with it. He attends a wedding in 2009 yet is still in country to be allegedly stripped of citizenship in 2011?Stripping of citizenship happens whether someone is in the country or not - it is purely at the Home Sec's discretion (the law permitting) as to if and when it is done.According to this article:...research by the bureau [of Investigative Journalism] has further found that of the 18 individuals it has identified who have had their UK nationality removed since 2006 at least 15 were known to be abroad when the orders were issued.I agree that the details within the letter might raise some suspicions as to the story being 100% correct but it's a difficult thing to cross-examine and verify when the details aren't really on record (if the above 'bureau' has only been able to identify 18 of the apparent 40 who have been subject to these orders). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismail-villa Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Nope. But its just after my experience in NYC where I was interrogated for 3 hours at JFK. They knew everything about me.What on earth would they ask that it lasted 3 hours?! [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15] edit: Nevermind I read your other post, but 3 hours is a long time and I'm sure it wasn't a pleasure to be interrogated for 3 hours! Edited December 28, 2014 by ismail-villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Nearly got shot on the German / Dutch border once. We were driving through and the German border guard guy gave what my dad thought was international sign language for 'yeah, just keep driving'. But it turned out to be international sign language for 'pull over there for a 100th car random cursory check'. So the old man accelerates away in his top of the range Chevette and an inconceivable number of Germans with stubby little machine guns all poured out of this tiny hut shouting and screaming at him. They kept us waiting there for about half a day whilst they checked out our story of going for a swim where the swimming pool was just over the border. You'd think the fact we had little else but towels, bathers and change for lockers would have been enough of a clue, but I think a point had to be made! I suspect that's very much the case all over the world. They've got all day and its interesting to hear what might get said after a couple of hours of being messed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 reports of isis militants turning up at iraq hospitals with ebola, cant see it being true if im honest but if it is then at least the virus is doing some good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 4 children amongst 6 children frozen to death in Syria tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I just read that the saudis are building a 965km long barrier to stop isis, wouldn't it be easier just to stop funding them ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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