CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 What on earth is a 'rubber dingy rapids mission'? Rubber dingy rapids bro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 What on earth is a 'rubber dingy rapids mission'? Quote from Four Lions innit? Rubber Dinghy Rapids from Alton Towers is what one of them thinks paradise will be like, so I'd say Ads is talking about a suicide mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2014 What on earth is a 'rubber dingy rapids mission'? Quote from Four Lions innit? Rubber Dinghy Rapids from Alton Towers is what one of them thinks paradise will be like, so I'd say Ads is talking about a suicide mission. I assumed it was a reference to suicide missions but couldn't get the link, not seen the film so guess that makes sense. Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 What on earth is a 'rubber dingy rapids mission'? Quote from Four Lions innit? Rubber Dinghy Rapids from Alton Towers is what one of them thinks paradise will be like, so I'd say Ads is talking about a suicide mission. I assumed it was a reference to suicide missions but couldn't get the link, not seen the film so guess that makes sense. Ta Paging Trent to the film snobs thread so we can all slag him off for not having seen a particular film 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Well, IS do have a navy and have been attacking bridges, so there was room for confusion! I was referencing Four Lions though. I've not seen figures for this week of IS casualties; 850 odd Iraq's were killed by IS though from the 8th to 14th September, with 600 in Nineveh province due to a massacre up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Surely that 30k figure must be decreasing fairly rapidly with the air support and direct targeting from the US? Increasing daily. Turkish nationals are flocking to join IS, I read about 19 men signing up from a single family in Istanbul last week. They are still coming in from all over the world. While many of us view Islamic State as an evil death cult it is seen by others as an attempt by purists to mimic the days of Mohammed and the rise of Islam, creating a powerful - if somewhat grotesque - narrative. Edited September 17, 2014 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2014 Surely that 30k figure must be decreasing fairly rapidly with the air support and direct targeting from the US? Increasing daily. Turkish nationals are flocking to join IS, I read about 19 men signing up from a single family in Istanbul last week. They are still coming in from all over the world. While many of us view Islamic State as an evil death cult it is seen by others as an attempt by purists to mimic the days of Mohammed and the rise of Islam, creating a powerful - if somewhat grotesque - narrative. Depressing. If that is the case, then surely military action against them isn't a solution as all it is going to do is aid their recruitment drive? Unless we put boots on the ground and actually wipe the organisation out completely which there isn't the political will to do if it could even be achieved. So is there any point to military action? I guess they need to be pushed back but it seems akin to trying to control ivy with nail clippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2014 not seen the film so guess that makes sense. TaGo away and watch it immediately. It is excellent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Surely that 30k figure must be decreasing fairly rapidly with the air support and direct targeting from the US?Increasing daily. Turkish nationals are flocking to join IS, I read about 19 men signing up from a single family in Istanbul last week. They are still coming in from all over the world. While many of us view Islamic State as an evil death cult it is seen by others as an attempt by purists to mimic the days of Mohammed and the rise of Islam, creating a powerful - if somewhat grotesque - narrative. Depressing. If that is the case, then surely military action against them isn't a solution as all it is going to do is aid their recruitment drive? Unless we put boots on the ground and actually wipe the organisation out completely which there isn't the political will to do if it could even be achieved. So is there any point to military action? I guess they need to be pushed back but it seems akin to trying to control ivy with nail clippers. All true, but I'd add two things: first they have to be prevented from gobbling up more territory which requires physical force, and second dealing them a decisive battlefield defeat will shatter their claim to be a theological mirror of the early followers of Mohammed. Whatever happens IS or successor groups will be with us for a very long time - sorry, I know that is depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Not sure what Muslims as a people can do. The governments that can make decisions that will have an impact on IS are in the pocket of the US and UK and are just as if not more corrupt. I don't ask Christians to condemn child abuse or Man Utd fans to condemn Eamon Holmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Also remember how many Muslims are getting killed because of IS not to mention the number killed in Syria over the last few years. You won't get many defending them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2014 Not sure what Muslims as a people can do. The governments that can make decisions that will have an impact on IS are in the pocket of the US and UK..Not sure how much of that is right, really. Isn't part of the problem that nearby countries all have wildly different and conflicting interests, and that there's not a unifying factor or influence (whether that be the US or whoever) who can get them to act in cohesion to stop the twisted brain-wrongers? - Syria, Iran, Turkey, Iraq and so on are either incapable, unwilling or both, and not exactly US stooges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The sooner the oil runs out and one of our worst best friends no longer has the dollars to carry out their endless secterian agenda against the Twelvers via proxies, maybe the better the region will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Also remember how many Muslims are getting killed because of IS not to mention the number killed in Syria over the last few years. You won't get many defending them No one in their right mind is blaming all Muslims as a people for IS, AQ or any other misfit band of lunatics. Unfortunately there are some mid east governments and very wealthy individuals who for a mix of reasons (geopolitics, religious fervour and domestic agendas) have funded and enabled a monster they can no longer control. That monster recruits from equally religious, confused, angry or just plain sadistic young men and women using very, very slick propaganda techniques. The result is a loop of perpetual radicalization within a group of people who continually reinforce each other's beliefs - with horrific results. There is nothing to be done with those inside that group other than kill them all, or as many as humanly possible. Once the news starts showing volunteers spread all over the desert by high explosives, once all those who travel stop coming home, then those minded to chance it will think twice about joining jihad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) I think Islamophobia is understandable (but not justified) really. Everything you read or see on telly is pretty much aimed at producing that reaction. The alternative would be to blame the statesmen and "peacemakers" that are happy to sacrifice their own citizens to further their own agendas, and that wouldn't do. With all the due respect to any one that has a phobia of Islam but what does it say about a person that has based an opinion on the second largest religion in the world because of a few fanatics and the media that is desperate to make them look bad. Edited September 17, 2014 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2014 I think Islamophobia is understandable (but not justified) really. Everything you read or see on telly is pretty much aimed at producing that reaction. The alternative would be to blame the statesmen and "peacemakers" that are happy to sacrifice their own citizens to further their own agendas, and that wouldn't do. With all the due respect to any one that has a phobia of Islam but what does it say about a person that has based an opinion on the second largest religion in the world because of a few fanatics and the media that is desperate to make them look bad. All the muslims I know are good people, and I'm fine with people worshipping whatever God they like. I have to say though that it's not just the media making muslims look bad. There are unfortunately, with social media and that, quite lot of twisted brain-wrongers making youtube and twitters and stuff which at best rather help the media, and at worst just horrify and revolt everyone, of whatever faith/non-faith, and in these social media things, these twisted brain-wrongers are claiming they are doing it for Islam and so on. You can't blame normal, peaceful people (muslim or otherwise) for that, but it really really doesn't help with the overall bad image that has built up around the religion. When people do such horrific stuff "in the name of Islam" it's not surprising people look on Islam less favourably as a consequence. They're doing their claimed faith a lot of harm. Most of the people, ordinary folk, feel for example huge sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians and the way their land is stolen, they are bombed and shot and oppressed and etc. and then there's this other side, where people go around murdering, beheading, and mutilating. When Al-Quaida is even saying "steady on chaps" to ISIS, you know it's a **** up world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Their book calls for believers to kill infidels a staggering amount of times ! Often in graphically violent ways ! How can you not blame Islam for this shit ? Sorry to go over old ground but I thought I should respond to this. This post says it better than I could ever do There is no such thing in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter. Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state. The word used most often in Quran, that is so often mistranslated as kill; slay; or slaughter is not jihad, it is Qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat. Naturally, just as here in the U.S. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the Tafsir (explanation and interpretation of verses in the Quran) and explanations by top scholars today. Scholars of Quran tell us the verses dealing with this topic are specific and not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. The early Muslims had been driven out of their homes and turned out into the desert to starve. After finally, relocating in Medina, verses came in Quran instructing them to make hajj (pilgrimage) back to Makkah. Finding their way blocked and after several years of making agreements and treaties that the others continually broke, the Muslims were at last, told they could now fight in combat against the tyrants who had so horribly mistreated and abused them in the past. However, this would only be acceptable to Allah if they remained within very specific limitations. The word "Qital" in Arabic in this instance refers to "combat" rather than what some have used "kill" because the word "kill" is far to general, while the word "combat" appropriately describes what is intended by the usage in this passage. Allah Knows Best. It should also be noted the usage of the word "Fitnah" in the same verse denotes a horrible condition, not unlike what we find today when there is terrorism and tyranny against the moral and just society at large. It would be easy to properly understand the meaning as, "Engage them in combat, even killing them, until the state of "Fitnah" (terrorism) no longer exists in the society and people are free to worship Allah by their choice." We can see these verse are not designed to promote terrorism, but rather these are very orders from Above to the Muslims to be the first of those who stand out aggressively against all forms of terrorism and oppression. Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Allah ordered believers in the Quran to wage combat against terrorism - 14 centuries ago. And the "struggle against oppression, terrorism and tyranny" in the Arabic language, it is called, "Jihad." I tell them, "Islam declared the WAR ON TERRORISM - over 1,400 years ago!" This is just one post but I could go more in depth on how things have been misinterprated in the Quran. There are some verses in the Quran which are only intended for the people at the time because of what they are going through yet people misinterpret it and apply it today. Re the Islamic state there are certain conditions that need to be met to establish an Islamic state. None of which IS have complied with and certainly nothing they are doing is justified by anything in the Quran. Many verses about combat and war are directly in relation to the Prophet's time (pbuh). At the time they were a small group of people being persecuted and forced out by the majority. Many verses were instructions to them to help them fight persecution and win wars when they were massively outnumbered. Happy to try my best to answer any other questions you may have about Islam that you have seen in the media or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 You would think the creator of everything could get a book together that couldn't be misinterpreted and would be relevant to all generations !Sounds like it was written by sexist , homophobic men to me and just possibly it isn't actually true ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) The problem with a theological debate about whether Islam as a religion provides for violence, be it in defence of its lands etc, is largely irrelavant to the hisotrical relaity. It was a unifying idea for local conquest in Arabia. It was a unifying idea for conqest over the Sassanids and then elements of the Eastern Empire, through parts of the Western Empire and into the lands of the Franks, before receeding, all within a few hundred years of inception. It was a religion spread through violent conquest and it has been open for violent interpretation ever since. 19th century Wahabbism and its reparreance in the 20th century gave the house of Saud, bandits and raiders, a religious legitmacy. IS are attempt a more modern [which sounds like a misnomer considering that want to go back to the 6th century) interpretation of that. Edited September 18, 2014 by Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) EDIT: Ignore that I think it's something else Isis have released a new video in which a captured British journalist promises to expose the ‘truth behind Islamic State.’ In the haunting video, John Cantlie, a former war photographer and correspondent for The Sunday Times, The Sun and The Sunday Telegraph, speaks to the camera from behind a table in a darkened room, The shocking clip shows Mr Cantlie saying he was ‘abandoned’ by the British government and describes how, in a series of videos, he will seek to dispel ‘manipulated truths’ told by the Western media. ‘I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking ‘he’s only doing this because he’s a prisoner – he’s got a gun at his head and he’s being forced to do this,” he says. ‘Well, I am a prisoner – that I cannot deny – but seeing as I’ve been abandoned by my government and my fate now lies in the hands of the Islamic State, I have nothing to lose.’ ‘Over the next few programmes, I am going to show you the truth as the Western media tries to drag the public back to the abyss of another war with the Islamic State,’ he says http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/isis-releases-new-video-of-captive-british-journalist-john-cantlie-saying-he-will-expose-truth-behind-islamic-state-4873820/?ito=facebook Edited September 18, 2014 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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