claret75 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I think there might just be a severe lack of self-belief. Everyone played their hearts out against Man U. Confidence must be a part of it. Man U wasn't so long ago. I think we might see a different side once we get Young and others fit. If we can put 2 or 3 good results together we can get things going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Everyone played their hearts out against Man U. That was 8 games ago ffs. Since then we have lost 6 of the last 7 and been pretty gutless the vast majority of those games especially Balckburn, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City.Did you read the first bit of my post where I said I think there's a severe lack of self-belief? This lack of self-belief obviously come from all these recent losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 its quiet clear to me that the club are now making public the discontent within the club, this is a genuine attempt to buy GH some time with the fans who rightly aren't happy with what they're seeing on the pitch. For me, this all goes hand in hand, and i agree with people who are saying GH needs to be stronger. for me i saw our best performances under GH when we were lacking a fair amount of senior players. In the summer there was talk of the six, being Reo-Coker, Carew, Beye, Davies, L.Young and Warnock. i think now with what's gone on you can safely add Dunne and Ireland to that list. I think Lerner knew of this fraction within the squad and hoped that O'Neill leaving would solve the matter. it hasn't and Houllier has only compounded the matter. Honestly if Houllier bombed out those players and could only replace them with our Youth, then i could live with that, at least we'd have players who wanted to play for the shirt. Even if we went down with a team of kids, i could live with it. I just want a team who will play for the shirt, while ability may be lacking sometimes i will never slate someone for lacking ability only lacking effort. I feel if Hou can get a couple of the more destructive players out and bring in some of his own men, the mood within the squad will change significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I didn't follow pre-season events too closely. What exactly do "the six" have in common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 MM has said about 10 players make up the main gang of people who are contributing to it - up from 6 Sidwell, Beye, Ireland, Davies, NRC, Carew, Dunne, Warnock, Friedel, Collins, Osbourne, Salifou ? I dont want Petrov to leave just yet so I hope he isnt one of the 10. But I can only see it being some mixture of those players above. Every single one is replaceable and even if Houllier was the greatest manager to walk the earth these are still players that at the end of this season or the end of next would be either a) Not Good Enough - Salifou, Osbourne, Sidwell, Beye, Davies Too Old and hanging up their boots - Friedel c) Not Hard Working Enough (Lack Passion) - Warnock, Dunne, Carew, Ireland (never wanted to come in the first place) d) leaving for a final pay day else where - Carew, NRC, The only thing is they are doing this now when the younger players look up to them and they are our only options on the pitch. Get Rid and Replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I didn't follow pre-season events too closely. What exactly do "the six" have in common? O'Neil supposedly said Six players no longer featured in his plans for the team - I presume that is where the 6 pissed off players comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I didn't follow pre-season events too closely. What exactly do "the six" have in common? They're all words removed?!? i thought the original dispute was because they were being frozen out by O'Neill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 its quiet clear to me that the club are now making public the discontent within the club, this is a genuine attempt to buy GH some time with the fans who rightly aren't happy with what they're seeing on the pitch. For me, this all goes hand in hand, and i agree with people who are saying GH needs to be stronger. for me i saw our best performances under GH when we were lacking a fair amount of senior players. In the summer there was talk of the six, being Reo-Coker, Carew, Beye, Davies, L.Young and Warnock. i think now with what's gone on you can safely add Dunne and Ireland to that list. I think Lerner knew of this fraction within the squad and hoped that O'Neill leaving would solve the matter. it hasn't and Houllier has only compounded the matter. Honestly if Houllier bombed out those players and could only replace them with our Youth, then i could live with that, at least we'd have players who wanted to play for the shirt. Even if we went down with a team of kids, i could live with it. I just want a team who will play for the shirt, while ability may be lacking sometimes i will never slate someone for lacking ability only lacking effort. I feel if Hou can get a couple of the more destructive players out and bring in some of his own men, the mood within the squad will change significantly. I agree we need some new men in there that will change the attitude in the team. A couple of strong characters would do wonders for that. Also agree GH needs to get rid of any of the troublemakers, I don't want them at Villa. It's one thing falling out with the manager, that happens pretty often, but it's another thing turning on him in numbers, if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 NRC has just been given a reprieve under Houllier, he is hardly going to kill the goose is he? some deductions leave me baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I didn't follow pre-season events too closely. What exactly do "the six" have in common? They're all words removed?!? i thought the original dispute was because they were being frozen out by O'Neill. Yes, but these were: Shorey (out), L. Young, Davies, Sidwell, Reo Coker, Beye. Mysteryman claim that they also did not work hard in training, knowing they would not get chances this season, so that might explain some of the injury problems we have had when Houllier stepped up the training (it also fits with Houllier's comments about the poor fitness). Well, troublemakers are troublemakers, so no surprises that those who are causing trouble under O'Neill will start to cause trouble under another stubborn manager with his own ideas. Then we have some players who also fall out with the manager (Carew, Warnock - historical reasons, Dunne and Ireland). And now we have problems. Get rid of some of them asap, and let's see how it effects the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I didn't follow pre-season events too closely. What exactly do "the six" have in common? O'Neil supposedly said Six players no longer featured in his plans for the team - I presume that is where the 6 pissed off players comes from. probably his last six signings lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Why would Warnock and Carew fall out with Houllier for historical reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Just watched the Houllier interview on AVTV following the Man City match. Quite a telling little section at the end, Jack asks about the players fitness, Houllier replies; "Ashley trained today, Stephen Ireland couldn't come....well, he reported with a (shrug) bad knee in the training yesterday, but I heard that he trained today (shrug), urrm, John Carew was not fit to travel (snort, smile) so he said, so, we've got to get on" I'd welcome others' thoughts, but to me it really looks like Houllier is frustrated with Carew and Ireland and there is a suggestion that they are simply taking the piss. He doesn't say anything blunt or criticise any players but it is almost as if he is imploring viewers to understand that he is having to deal with some annoying bollocks at the moment. The question that is obviously causing much debate is whether Houllier is the cause of this unrest or whether it is overpaid, lazy, prima donna players whose hearts are not in it. For the time being I'm on the side of GH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaztonVilla Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 If I were in GH's shoes, I'd call a team meeting and declare an amnesty. "If you want to stay here and be a part of what's happening, you're welcome. Otherwise, the door is there. You won't play again, you can inform your agents they have 31 days to get you a transfer. If you're staying, I will meet each of you individually and then as a group. No holds barred, I want to know your concerns and you will hear mine. I will then respond to your concerns, either individually or to the group. The playing squad at the end of this process will be united. We will be a team. We win together, we lose together. We celebrate and we mourn together. And defeats are softened and victories sweeter because we did them together. From this point on, you're my guys and I'm yours and there's nothing I wouldn't do for you. " Yes, its fluffy and nicey and far too idealistic. But I've had a few drinks and I really want this club to get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I agree Gazton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiDanger Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Why would Warnock and Carew fall out with Houllier for historical reasons? Maybe they keep mentioning The Battle of Waterloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Just watched the Houllier interview on AVTV following the Man City match. Quite a telling little section at the end, Jack asks about the players fitness, Houllier replies; "Ashley trained today, Stephen Ireland couldn't come....well, he reported with a (shrug) bad knee in the training yesterday, but I heard that he trained today (shrug), urrm, John Carew was not fit to travel (snort, smile) so he said, so, we've got to get on" I'd welcome others' thoughts, but to me it really looks like Houllier is frustrated with Carew and Ireland and there is a suggestion that they are simply taking the piss. He doesn't say anything blunt or criticise any players but it is almost as if he is imploring viewers to understand that he is having to deal with some annoying bollocks at the moment. The question that is obviously causing much debate is whether Houllier is the cause of this unrest or whether it is overpaid, lazy, prima donna players whose hearts are not in it. For the time being I'm on the side of GH. I agree with you post, Ireland had a flu before and now he has a bad knee? Carew isn't fit to travel either, he hasn't been fit all season what is he doing to get himself fit? going abroad was a good idea in progressing to fitness I imagine.. well done Carew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefeet1980 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Why would Warnock and Carew fall out with Houllier for historical reasons? Maybe they keep mentioning The Battle of Waterloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaztonVilla Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Stephen Ireland couldn't come....well, he reported with a (shrug) bad knee in the training yesterday, but I heard that he trained today (shrug) Jesus Christ, here he goes again. He REALLY REALLY can't help himself. I accept that I'm only reading the words and trying to interpret the tone in which he said it and the meaning behind the shrugs can be difficult. But, he has previous, so I think he's having a swipe again. Well Gerard, you told him the other week that he didn't fit in your plans and wasn't going to play for you again. Have you changed your mind then? Would he have travelled if he had been fit? And you heard he trained today? With the reserves as per your instructions, I presume? Do you think maybe if he was faking an injury he would have taken more than one day off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OK_Villan Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I think a possible issue here is that MON was very selective in who he signed and bought loyalty through higher than market wages and playing time. When GH came in and tried to establish himself, the senior players, who were spoiled by MON's methods, rebelled. Carew lost any moral standing with me when he talked about the fans singing his name. It obviously went to his head. For now, I'm taking Houllier's side, though he is being passive-aggressive and is not free of blame himself. I think it's a difficult situation for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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