AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 What a beautiful, beautiful player. If you can't sit down and enjoy his performances then I feel sorry for you. 8 more to break Barca's all time scoring record. 12 more for 60 goals in a single season. If he can remain uninjured and only rested for 2/3 games, he should do it. Remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Someone loves Messi a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 the guy is an unbelievable talent but for me he wont go down as the worlds best simply because he has not cut it in any other league. i would say ronaldo has achieved more as done it in england, spain and portugual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Damn straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 He's stupidly good. Best ever imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Easily. Ability wise anyway, if somebody wants to counter with the 'other leagues' argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think he would need to move to other leagues to prove it once and for all. pele scored 1000 goals in brazil and a shitty American league back in the 70s. If Messi can win a world cup and do what he does now in Prem or Italy then there are no arguments against him as the best player ever. He is breaking records left right and centre. Thing is he is worth about £120m. Unless he goes for free no one could afford him with fair play rules coming into effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 but for me he wont go down as the worlds best simply because he has not cut it in any other league. i would say ronaldo has achieved more as done it in england, spain and portugual. Spot on, I was saying this the other day when my mate was Jizzing all over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 but for me he wont go down as the worlds best simply because he has not cut it in any other league. i would say ronaldo has achieved more as done it in england, spain and portugual. Spot on, I was saying this the other day when my mate was Jizzing all over him. Going back a bit now. Pele only played in the Brazilian league and then the US league. He is still considered the best of all time. Furthermore the league he plays in is one of the top 2 in Europe. And if it is top 2 in Europe, then it is top 2 in the world. Surely performing well for 4 seasons in one of the top 2 leagues in the world is good enough. We are talking the Spanish league here, not the Turkish or Belgian league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 While I see what people are saying about him proving himself in another league, essentially what they're criticising him for is reaching the peak of his powers at the pinnacle of the game and pricing himself out of a move anywhere. That's hardly his fault and it somehow means that any 'best player ever' has to serve time in a potentially inferior situation - something that doesn't typically lend itself to being the best player ever. You tend to gravitate towards the top. So in the eyes of 'the internet' he's not the best because he's only the best player by a mile in the best team on the planet and maybe the best team ever. Right, gotcha You win, internet Oh and as for the 'he still has to win the world cup' argument. That's also a load of balls in a best 'player' ever discussion. What if the discussion was about someone from a country not capable of winning the world cup. Would they then never be able to be claimed the best 'player' ever because of their national side's failings? I don't think he is the best player ever yet, but the current arguments against it don't hold water for me. The only thing stopping him in my view is time. At the end of his career, even if he spends the entirety of it with Barcelona and never wins the world cup, he will probably be the greatest ever. Just sit back and enjoy it cuz you will be telling your grandkids about watching Messi, and you won't be telling them about a discussion you were having on an internet forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 He is still considered the best of all time. By Pele he is. Maradona regularly wins polls on the subject and FIFA then manipulate the results with internal rigging to put the far more image-friendly Pele on top. They completely disregarded an internet section of a recent vote because it was so lopsided towards Maradona that he would have won. Pele was fantastic but it was at a time when the opposition were useless and his goals were scored in a crap league that wouldn't let him leave for Europe. So on one hand, people are saying Messi is NOT the greatest because he is only scoring goals in one of the 2 best leagues in the world and on the other hand people are claiming Pele IS the greatest because he scored loads of goals in a shite league. I love you internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 He is still considered the best of all time. By Pele he is. Maradona regularly wins polls on the subject and FIFA then manipulate the results with internal rigging to put the far more image-friendly Pele on top. They completely disregarded an internet section of a recent vote because it was so lopsided towards Maradona that he would have won. Pele was fantastic but it was at a time when the opposition were useless and his goals were scored in a crap league that wouldn't let him leave for Europe. So on one hand, people are saying Messi is NOT the greatest because he is only scoring goals in one of the 2 best leagues in the world and on the other hand people are claiming Pele IS the greatest because he scored loads of goals in a shite league. I love you internet. Maybe your right, but I think a key reason people rate Maradona higher is because he played 20 years later, so people like yourself would of seen him play. But Peles career was laste 1950s to late 1970s so most people around today are too young or were not born when the Brazilian was doing his thing. I was also not aware of FIFA manipulating results so Maradona does not win the greatest player ever votes. How do you know this? Also with regards to your final point, I have no idea what standard the Brazilian league was like in the 60s or 70s. It may of been the strongest league at the time. Finally I said Pele is considered to be the best player of all time. Not nesscesarily (sp) my own personal opinion. Unfortunately I was born in the mid 80s, so I actually missed the careers of both these greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 I remember reading that they basically acknowledged the internet vote as being a separate and token vote on the subject after the event, where it was initially supposed to make up a percentage of the final tally. But if they had included it the result would have changed. They clearly couldn't pretend that the internet vote didn't happen, so they just mentioned it as an aside. Good old FIFA. Rotten to the core. And you're right that Maradona was later than Pele but that shouldn't mean Pele automatically gets a headstart purely on the basis that he was earlier, which is what he often does get in conversations like this. It's also true that his opponents were much worse back then. Something that Messi doesn't get enough credit for. Messi is doing these things to opposition that is very well coached and organised. There's no easy opponent for Messi. Pele had guys who just tried to kick him, so as long as he was an accomplished hurdler, he had half of his opponents beaten already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Well if the opponents get better as time goes on, clearly that is another tick in the Messi corner. But I will admit I am not the most valid person to ask when it comes to the "best player of all time" debates because my football interest only goes back to 1994. Seeing a few TV or youtube highlights of Maradona, Pele, Cruyff and actually following them in their careers are two completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Firstly, for me the fact he plays for Barcelona and is a stand out just adds to his brilliance. He has to go to another league and prove it? Really? He is in a team with some of the finest players of this generation, Xavi, Villa, Iniesta, Fabregas etc...and he outshines them all, he's the focal point of the Barcelona team and for me, although without him they are a great team, with him they are arguably the greatest. Look at someone like David Villa, a phenomenal player, when they play on the same pitch, the difference is frightening. Even opposition speaking, whenever Ronaldo features vs Barcelona with Messi on the pitch, there is only one winner, Messi always is the better player and that is Ronaldo, a player who will probably go down himself in history as one of the great goalscorers in the game. He's head and shoulders above the rest and he has to prove himself in another league? Oh yes because I'm sure the quality of James Collins and Stephen Warnock will provide a much sterner test for him. Oh and 'he has to win the world cup' debate, what a load of old shit that is. What if Argentina win the world cup but Messi doesn't play that well. Argentina win the World Cup because the others such as Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Mascha etc..all have fantastic tournaments themselves. Is that more impressive than say Messi having an unbelievable tournament, scoring 6 goals, assisting 3 in 5 games yet going in the Quarter finals because they drew 2-2 due to defensive errors and then lost on penalties for example. Just because his team mates don't perform, he can't be considered the greatest? Or just because his team mates play brilliantly, he can be considered the greatest? You wouldn't be basing your arguement on a player but on a team. While we celebrate brilliant individuality, let's not forget that Football is played with 11 men and if Argentina are un-organised and lacking quality in other areas of the pitch who top teams are able to exploit then Lionel Messi CAN'T single handedly go and pull Argentina through. Especially when you're talking scorelines similar to that of Germany game, 0-4. If people don't think Messi is the greatest because they have watched the others play the game at the time or via lots of videos, then fair enough. We are judging individual ability and I'm sure there are many who believe Maradona was simply the better player but I think when you start talking about things like leagues and world cups, it's just a load of bullshit. Winning an extra medal doesn't change the ability of the player, it is still the same person. Who is simply the greatest footballer? The greatest I have seen is Messi but I do not go very far back. I can't quite fathom how anyone could be better, not to say someone wasn't but I just can't picture such quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Messi is doing these things to opposition that is very well coached and organised. There's no easy opponent for Messi. i agree with that, how many hours of video tape do you think mourinho has sat through trying to cope with messi? and he still cant really i dont get why so many people are keen to shoot him down, so what if he hasnt played in other leagues, maradona did it by and large because of money troubles (the napoli move was because he was broke according to venables) and ronaldo has done it to play for bigger clubs, if he plays in the best team in the world and has been there since 12 why would he move? so the only argument against him is the world cup, he's 24, maradona was 26 when he won his... by the time he finishes playing just about every scoring record and probbaly club trophey record will be his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 Maradona was better POB. What other players could do with a football, he could do with a pingpong ball. But given time, I think Messi has every chance to overtake him. In my view I think we're already talking about the 2 greatest players that have ever lived. I'm usually loathe to talk in absolutes like that, but I think in this case you can't do anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Maradona was better POB. What other players could do with a football, he could do with a pingpong ball. But given time, I think Messi has every chance to overtake him. In my view I think we're already talking about the 2 greatest players that have ever lived. I'm usually loathe to talk in absolutes like that, but I think in this case you can't do anything but. And I completely respect that opinion. I don't even disagree with it, It's a shame I have only seen one. Messi is the greatest player I have seen, so it makes my mind boggle to try and think that someone could surpass him with a not completely dis-similar style of play. I hope he just continues to improve, suggesting 60 goals in a season would have seen you sent to a loony hospital 3-4 years ago, so be interesting to see what happens in the future. Surely he won't be able to hit 65-70? :? that's forgetting the 25+ assists usually per season also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 hate these best player debates as usually always centred around attackers. Paolo Maldini never got more than 5 goals a season but id say he is best player I have ever seen for consistency , talent and class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 you only need to look at the records he is breaking to see he will be the best player of all time. as I said on the page before, before he is 25 he will score goals for barcelona than Henry did over 10 years at Arsenal. And people say he is one of the best prem strikers ever. within 2 seasons it's perfectly feasable he will score more goals than Alan Shearer did in his entire career. and he is the prems best ever striker on goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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