Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I remember Lineker saying about how Maradona used to boot the ball up in the air 50ft and catch it on his neck, and repeat this over and over. Other players like Platini would look on in amazement when he did it. Biggest underachievers in world football? Its not England like everyone says. It is Argentina. For the players they have produced they should have more world cup wins by now. In my opinion only Brazil have produced more world class players over the last 30 years. :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 hate these best player debates as usually always centred around attackers. Paolo Maldini never got more than 5 goals a season but id say he is best player I have ever seen for consistency , talent and class Attack is much more fun then defence. Im sure anyone who has watched Aston Villa this season will agree. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 Taking it down to it's most basic; and I'm not saying defending isn't an art because it clearly is; but what it boils down to for me is that it is much more difficult to create than it is to destroy. That's why attackers come out on top in these discussions. They're the ones in possession. They're the ones who have to create the run, use trickery, use deft touch and accuracy to score and have to avoid the tackles. A brilliant defender is someone who is not in possession, they have to read the game and position themselves so that they can just stick the boot in at the appropriate time or get a block in. Yes there is a skill to it and yes it is a vital part of the game. But in a discussion about the abilities of a footballer and in terms of pure skill, the art of attacking is much more complicated than the art of defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 hate these best player debates as usually always centred around attackers. Paolo Maldini never got more than 5 goals a season but id say he is best player I have ever seen for consistency , talent and class I think it's because scoring/creation of goals is the hardest thing to do in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I thought Pele scored 1000 goals? Top scorers Pele 541? well if that's the case Messi will score more than 541 goals at this rate. At the top level scoring anything more than 300 = monsterous legendary status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The previous posts sum up what I was just about to say. It is easier to destroy then create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 His 1,000 goals include exhibition games and training sessions. He did and his arse score 1,000 goals. You'll note they never say he scored 1,000 competitive goals. It's a myth trotted out whenever it suits his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 His 1,000 goals include exhibition games and training sessions. He did and his arse score 1,000 goals. You'll note they never say he scored 1,000 competitive goals. It's a myth trotted out whenever it suits his argument. Feck me, I may just be leading all time goalscorer in football then if we're counting training sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 gerd muller is never really in contention for these lists is he? strange seeing as he holds the bundesliga scoring record (and in european "top" leagues is way out ahead of everyone else, 125 more than shearer for example) he held the WC record, im pretty sure he held the european cup scoring record and germany scoring record (68 goals in 62 games) for ages too, as well as winning pretty much everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Gerd Müller was awesome, and is a legend in the city I currently reside. But we are talking number 1 of all time here. Gerd Müller probably sneaks into the top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 Müller was a finisher. An awesome one undoubtedly, but 'only' a finisher. To be regarded as the greatest player ever to kick a football you need more to your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 His 1,000 goals include exhibition games and training sessions. He did and his arse score 1,000 goals. You'll note they never say he scored 1,000 competitive goals. It's a myth trotted out whenever it suits his argument. but Romario did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Taking it down to it's most basic; and I'm not saying defending isn't an art because it clearly is; but what it boils down to for me is that it is much more difficult to create than it is to destroy. That's why attackers come out on top in these discussions. They're the ones in possession. They're the ones who have to create the run, use trickery, use deft touch and accuracy to score and have to avoid the tackles. A brilliant defender is someone who is not in possession, they have to read the game and position themselves so that they can just stick the boot in at the appropriate time or get a block in. Yes there is a skill to it and yes it is a vital part of the game. But in a discussion about the abilities of a footballer and in terms of pure skill, the art of attacking is much more complicated than the art of defending. well i appreciate good defending as well as attacking. Dunne in Moscow or Cannavaro in 2006, Lucio in 2010 Champions League. Maldini was awesome in USA 94 and his consistency over years was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 He should of had a red against against Nigeria though in the 2nd round. Most dirty, blatant last man foul ever. Nigeria were leading at the time too. Amazing how things could of turned out so different off one incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 well i appreciate good defending as well as attackingYes so do I and I said as much. You haven't really tried to discuss my reasoning for why attacking is a more difficult skill than defending though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will87 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 the boy Messi can play a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 His 1,000 goals include exhibition games and training sessions. He did and his arse score 1,000 goals. You'll note they never say he scored 1,000 competitive goals. It's a myth trotted out whenever it suits his argument. I agree Bri. Pele was overrated IMO. Its because of his clean cut image that Fifa say he was the best ever and spunk all over him rather then have the "crackhead" Maradona classed as the best ever. Messi will go down as the greatest ever once he hangs up his boots IMO. There is no doubt he is the greatest in the modern game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 you only need to look at the records he is breaking to see he will be the best player of all time. stats don’t tell the whole story. Anyway I can guarantee that some player will appear in say the next thirty years who will be considered the greatest and the journalists will be waxing lyrically. You simply cannot compare Messi to say Howard Vaughton, or as Shankly said recently “Aye, Messi’s as good as Tommy – but then Tommy's nearly 90 now.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 yeah but in the same respect football now requires a lot more fitness and effort. no player from even the late 80s could last 90 minutes now. christ Best used to turn up after a full night partying and no sleep and go play 90 minutes. Doing that now you'd barely last to half time. didn't Viv Richards used to sleep off a hangover until he went in at number 3 and just biff a quick ton? you couldn't do that now in cricket either you'd get battered. So yes stats don't tell the whole story but so does the way the game was played back then and how it's played now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 22 goals in 67 caps for Argentina. I think if Messi could inspire Argentina to World Cup glory then that would cement his status as the best player ever. He has proved how good he is in club football. Now he needs to do it on the international stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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