Zatman Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 hopefully, it will mean we stayed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Have to say i am quite surprised by these stats.. He always seems to lose too much possession when i watch him. Does look though like our most creative is really Albrighton as he's only played 454 to create 13 chances. So he has a better chance per minute ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2013 Yes, sadly he might be, for next to nothing compared to his true value. I'd expect Wigan, Swansea, Arsenal or Man Utd to be interested, but he'd probably only leave us for Arsenal or Man Utd. We'd still have Gary Gardner, if he can regain his form after injury, but if we could keep both Gardner and Bannan I believe we would have two world class players in our team. Under present ownership we can't afford to buy two world class midfielders, so Bannan and Gardner, as potential world class players, are IMO the Villa future. To say I can't take you seriously would be an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 i certainly cant see gardner or bannan becoming world class, far from it, squad players and thats it, gardner wont ever play for england as there will always be better and bannan will only play for scotland because they have nobody else gardner might become slighly better than his brother, but thats about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Bannan is a worthy first team member IMO but World Class? Come on. Gardner has not shown anything to get excited about for the first team - he's struggled making the step up despite bossing it for the academy. Combine that with the injuries and unfortunately it's looking bleak for him to have a career as a premiership footballer, let alone be anywhere near world class. I'm all for positivity but lets not go nuts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 If Bannan can keep his delivery from set pieces then that is a world class weapon. He can also pick a pass, not something all players can do. So he has more going for him than just his set pieces. What else does Beckham do? He's slow, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't dribble, he doesn't head the ball... but he can whip in a mean cross. Gardner - yes, injury big problem. May never be same player again. Just don't know. I don't know what the negative reviews are for... very young player, has beaten Chelsea and Wolverhampton already. I disagree with the excessive negativity. BTW I am totally for Lerner to spend more on the squad. However good our young players are this is no excuse not to spend or to think we can get away without experience. Totally agree the squad needs a lot of spending on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Con's premierleague dream team ----------------Bannan--------------- Bannan----------------------Bannan ----------Bannan---Bannan---------- ----------------Bannan---------------- Bannan-Bannan-Bannan-Bannan ----------------Bannan----------------- He is that good Edited January 18, 2013 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Con's premierleague dream team ----------------Bannan--------------- Bannan----------------------Bannan ----------Bannan---Bannan---------- ----------------Bannan---------------- Bannan-Bannan-Bannan-Bannan ----------------Bannan----------------- He is that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limvillian Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Arsenal or Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammy Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Con's premierleague dream team ----------------Bannan--------------- Bannan----------------------Bannan ----------Bannan---Bannan---------- ----------------Bannan---------------- Bannan-Bannan-Bannan-Bannan ----------------Bannan----------------- He is that good The thought of wee Barry Bannan playing in goal just made me very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 If Bannan can keep his delivery from set pieces then that is a world class weapon. He can also pick a pass, not something all players can do. So he has more going for him than just his set pieces. What else does Beckham do? He's slow, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't dribble, he doesn't head the ball... but he can whip in a mean cross. Gardner - yes, injury big problem. May never be same player again. Just don't know. I don't know what the negative reviews are for... very young player, has beaten Chelsea and Wolverhampton already. I disagree with the excessive negativity. BTW I am totally for Lerner to spend more on the squad. However good our young players are this is no excuse not to spend or to think we can get away without experience. Totally agree the squad needs a lot of spending on it. Dude, come on! David Beckham was instantly an amazing player and he was for 10 years before going to LA Galaxy. He played for Manchester United, Real Madrid and AC Milan - some of the absolute top clubs in the world. Beckham was not fast, but he worked extremely hard, his positioning was great and each season for United he scored 6-8 league goals. His delivery and free-kicks were not great, they were probably the best and most consistent the world has ever seen. Sure Juninho of Lyon was equally great, but there are very few of them ever since. To say Barry Bannan is even close to Beckham is a huge insult to the latter IMO, he passing is average, his free-kicks are never dangerous and his assists tally is very low given he takes set-pieces. World-class? In that case most players in the Premier League has world-class potential, and we all know they do not. Barry Bannan is a very, very average player - if even that - and he will never play for a top-4 side in England. If his crossing and free-kicks were top notch, it would pay dividends over time in terms of goals and assists. Quite obviously, it does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The crossing accuracy and chance creation statistics show Bannan's lack of assists is not down to the quality of his crossing. This is why I look elsewhere for the answer why he doesn't have many assists. You're right he's a different kind of player to Beckham, the only comparison I am making is set piece delivery. No, he's not Beckham standard at that yet, may never be, but if he only gets even 80% way to Beckham consistency he will still be a world class player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Bannan will never be world class, please stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I don't see the Bannan/Beckham comparison, quality aside they're two different players. I think Bannan is more like Scholes, but obviously nowhere near as good! Scholes keeps it simple most of the time, picking the right pass will improve Bannan's game a lot IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangeways Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 If Bannan can keep his delivery from set pieces then that is a world class weapon. He can also pick a pass, not something all players can do. So he has more going for him than just his set pieces. What else does Beckham do? He's slow, he doesn't tackle, he doesn't dribble, he doesn't head the ball... but he can whip in a mean cross. Gardner - yes, injury big problem. May never be same player again. Just don't know. I don't know what the negative reviews are for... very young player, has beaten Chelsea and Wolverhampton already. I disagree with the excessive negativity. BTW I am totally for Lerner to spend more on the squad. However good our young players are this is no excuse not to spend or to think we can get away without experience. Totally agree the squad needs a lot of spending on it. Please stop my sides are splitting!!!!!!!! WORLD CLASSS WEAPON LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Someone needs to put the crack pipe away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Yes, sadly he might be, for next to nothing compared to his true value. I'd expect Wigan, Swansea, Arsenal or Man Utd to be interested, but he'd probably only leave us for Arsenal or Man Utd. We'd still have Gary Gardner, if he can regain his form after injury, but if we could keep both Gardner and Bannan I believe we would have two world class players in our team. Under present ownership we can't afford to buy two world class midfielders, so Bannan and Gardner, as potential world class players, are IMO the Villa future. Dude, I admire your positivity. But seriously, just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The crossing accuracy and chance creation statistics show Bannan's lack of assists is not down to the quality of his crossing. This is why I look elsewhere for the answer why he doesn't have many assists. You're right he's a different kind of player to Beckham, the only comparison I am making is set piece delivery. No, he's not Beckham standard at that yet, may never be, but if he only gets even 80% way to Beckham consistency he will still be a world class player. Laughable post :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Con sorry, I can't do it anymore. I love me some stats, but football stats as a whole are archaic and incomplete and any argument put forth as such requires context and a healthy dose of "These are probably not a good indicator of a player." Two things: 1) Sample Size Simply taking the stats of this season and saying that Bannan created x chances in so many minutes at x chances per minute without taking into account the minuscule sample size is simply not taking into account the enormity of the game. Consider that a whole season of games is 3600 minutes give or take with stoppage time, we've only gone through half of that. Consider that even a full season of stats isn't even enough to judge a player and you have an incomplete picture with numbers attached to the side. They're helpful but not indicative of a player's performance otherwise Albrighton should obviously start all our games! 2) Simplicity He has an X% passing accuracy and creates X/chances per minute are equivalent of saying that a baseball pitcher has this ERA and this many wins so he's obviously a good player. It's not true. There's so many other things to take into consideration besides the raw numbers. A complete vector diagram of his passes. His movement and ground covered. His positions when receiving the ball. The resulting positions when a pass is delivered. The regression rate of his "key passes." God, there's just so many things to take into consideration besides "% possession and complete" and "key passes created." They are helpful but shouldn't be used as a comprehensive indicator of a player's worth. I will agree with you that Bannan has created a good number of chances but exactly how helpful he is to the team as a whole is debatable at best and I certainly don't see him being linked to ManU and Arsenal anytime soon. Edited January 18, 2013 by Kwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Con sorry, I can't do it anymore. I love me some stats, but football stats as a whole are archaic and incomplete and any argument put forth as such requires context and a healthy dose of "These are probably not a good indicator of a player." You won't be able to find a quote on here from me when I've said anything different. I've consistently made the point that stats alone don't form an argument. Two things: 1) Sample Size Simply taking the stats of this season and saying that Bannan created x chances in so many minutes at x chances per minute without taking into account the minuscule sample size is simply not taking into account the enormity of the game. I made the point of saying "if he continues like this until the end of the season". Whilst I understand your point about "sample size" one should not become too fixated on that and ignore the trend. There is always interpretation whatever sample size you have, as players can show poor stats then have great seasons. Leighton Baines is an example of that. Consider that a whole season of games is 3600 minutes give or take with stoppage time, we've only gone through half of that. I've made this point. 2) Simplicity He has an X% passing accuracy and creates X/chances per minute are equivalent of saying that a baseball pitcher has this ERA and this many wins so he's obviously a good player. It's not true. You're wrong here. It's not not true. It's not necessarily true. That's an important distinction... It's far more likely to be true that a player with high passing accuracy with high chance creation is a good player than it is likely to be true that a player who is poor on these statistics is a good player. Having good stats doesn't guarantee the player is exceptional but when you make a claim such a player is good the probability this is true is in your favour, not against. There's so many other things to take into consideration besides the raw numbers. A complete vector diagram of his passes. His movement and ground covered. His positions when receiving the ball. The resulting positions when a pass is delivered. The regression rate of his "key passes." God, there's just so many things to take into consideration besides "% possession and complete" and "key passes created." They are helpful but shouldn't be used as a comprehensive indicator of a player's worth. Agree. I'd like more in depth stats analysis done and the relevance discussed. Stats don't tell you everything. I will agree with you that Bannan has created a good number of chances but exactly how helpful he is to the team as a whole is debatable at best and I certainly don't see him being linked to ManU and Arsenal anytime soon. I said there would be interest at the end of the season if we are relegated yet he continued to be the best crosser in the Premier League. Edited January 18, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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