Keyblade Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Players tend to go to the big markets rather than teams. New york, Boston, California. Superstar players tend to move, they don't stay in small market teams or choose to join them. The biggest one I can think of, which I guess is similar to Jack in some ways, is Lebron. He stayed in Cleveland and returned to Cleveland because that was his home town club. But even then he left to join Miami to win his championships before heading back and he's left again to join a big market team. At the moment, we can't offer Jack the glory or the money. Actually the LeBron example is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Miami isn't a large market by any means. LeBron joined to team up with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Superstars nowadays move around these days to form super duos or trios with other players. The team in question largely depends on how well the team is run and the smart moves the GM makes. Another example. Kawhi Leonard. Moved to one of the mid-lower markets in Toronto (thank God!) to win a title, thanks to maneouvering from the GM. A year later, he moves to similarly small market LA Clippers to team up with Paul George and assortment of decent players with the same goal. He could have went to next door Lakers, who are the second largest if not largest market, who were in the market for a superstar, but he didn't. It's all about the pitch from the organization. I hope our pitch to Jack is strong enough, but we have a lot going against the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, TRO said: I agree, and that is why, survival is so,so important. If we go down, it will set us back years.....even the cheeky so and so's from Smethwick are talking abou taking John McGinn, such is the predatory nature of all this. It was all about survival, this season.....but I honestly thought we would have made a less stressful job of it, perhaps finishing 14th/15th....now I would svap your hand off for 17th but I kid you not, if we do stay up , but continue doing the same things we will be in the same mire next season. some of The players we buy in the summer, assuming we stay up, need to be able to help us stop the opposition and be able to secure a 1-0 win on occasions. Agreed on all. I did hope we'd end up 14th-ish and put that on the prediction but honestly i thought 16th/17th was probably about right given the transformation of the squad in the summer and basically all new to the premier league. Two disappointments from the summer for me was not getting another striker in and not bringing in Cahill (instead of either Engels or Konsa). I always think you need experience at the back and was worried about that. Yes i love the long term view but a bit of experience always help short term. I am now disappointed in hindsight that none of our signings have really stood out. You generally get flops and great impact signings but most of our have done alright but that's it (might be great long term I know)...the obvious sloppy moments of newbies but generally just ok over the first 2/3 of the season. I really thought maybe one of those big bunch we brought would be great....maybe Luiz, maybe Trez but none have grasped the bull by the horns and done what McGinn did when he first came or Mings when he came in...that's been disappointing for me. Last summer was quantity over quality, this summer has to be quality over quantity so I agree with you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Keyblade said: Actually the LeBron example is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Miami isn't a large market by any means. LeBron joined to team up with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Superstars nowadays move around these days to form super duos or trios with other players. The team in question largely depends on how well the team is run and the smart moves the GM makes. Another example. Kawhi Leonard. Moved to one of the mid-lower markets in Toronto (thank God!) to win a title, thanks to maneouvering from the GM. A year later, he moves to similarly small market LA Clippers to team up with Paul George and assortment of decent players with the same goal. He could have went to next door Lakers, who are the second largest if not largest market, who were in the market for a superstar, but he didn't. It's all about the pitch from the organization. I hope our pitch to Jack is strong enough, but we have a lot going against the moment. Toronto is a bit different. He was traded there, he didn't choose them over anything else. He won a title with them and as soon as he was a free agent he jumped to LA. Miami, while not a huge market like LA and NY, is still bigger than some middle america teams and is an attractive place for free agents. And like you say, he moved to join a team that was going to win things. I feel like we're making the same point just in different ways. Winning things and money. These are why top players move. Giannis might stay because Wes Edens can offer him the chance of winning. But he hasn't committed long term and just 2 days ago mentioned LA in an interview. We can't offer Jack anything close to the money or chance of trophies that others can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: Neither can United, absolute mess of a club. Cuty, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal are all rebuilds. More than that, we have a 90 minute game in a couple of weeks that might be glory. Yes Man City are odds on favourite but crazy things have happened before and while not the big prize(s) it's more than most clubs can win this season. I wonder what players would rather do (excluding money), win the League Cup at Wembley or play in the Europa League but not win it? For me, it would be winning the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If we stay up and the club is put for up for sale. Wouldn’t the owners already make a significant return on their investment? Genuine question. Well, I can only guess like everyone else but I really don't think so....so that's my genuine answer. What I do know though is that when FFP fades there will be a far better return on their investment (potentially). These are very savvy and wealthy owners who will know when/if to sell up and and don't believe they'll leave us in the lurch like the 2 previous owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Toronto is a bit different. He was traded there, he didn't choose them over anything else. He won a title with them and as soon as he was a free agent he jumped to LA. Miami, while not a huge market like LA and NY, is still bigger than some middle america teams and is an attractive place for free agents. And like you say, he moved to join a team that was going to win things. I feel like we're making the same point just in different ways. Winning things and money. These are why top players move. Giannis might stay because Wes Edens can offer him the chance of winning. But he hasn't committed long term and just 2 days ago mentioned LA in an interview. We can't offer Jack anything close to the money or chance of trophies that others can. Yeah my point is that the line is blurred in the NBA between big and small teams. All that matters is the chance of winning things and money. The same I guess applies to football, but teams like United and Arsenal who don't have much of a chance of winning anything have a much bigger pull due to their stature alone. I think this is nullified by the fact that Jack is a Villa fan. So only the guarantee of winning something at a Liverpool or City or abroad would be enough to tempt him away. He already earns 100k/week here and I'm sure if he wanted we could up that to whatever he wants. I think if we stay up, it all rests on who comes in for him, how much they're willing to pay and the pitch the owners can make to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Go down he goes stay up he stays. We wouldnt accept £80m if we stay up. Once in a lifetime talent, face of the club. Rebuild needs him to be the focal point. Plus I need that sheer ecstasy of us staying up and keeping him and heading straight over to twitter and all the man yoo fans at work who are basically getting his name printed on their shirts already 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I know more about JG than basketball(if that's what's being discussed here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, nick76 said: Agreed on all. I did hope we'd end up 14th-ish and put that on the prediction but honestly i thought 16th/17th was probably about right given the transformation of the squad in the summer and basically all new to the premier league. Two disappointments from the summer for me was not getting another striker in and not bringing in Cahill (instead of either Engels or Konsa). I always think you need experience at the back and was worried about that. Yes i love the long term view but a bit of experience always help short term. I am now disappointed in hindsight that none of our signings have really stood out. You generally get flops and great impact signings but most of our have done alright but that's it (might be great long term I know)...the obvious sloppy moments of newbies but generally just ok over the first 2/3 of the season. I really thought maybe one of those big bunch we brought would be great....maybe Luiz, maybe Trez but none have grasped the bull by the horns and done what McGinn did when he first came or Mings when he came in...that's been disappointing for me. Last summer was quantity over quality, this summer has to be quality over quantity so I agree with you! We will have to replace Grealish , McGinn and Mings in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, KHV said: We will have to replace Grealish , McGinn and Mings in the summer Not if we dont go down. No chance McGinn or Mings are going anywhere if we stay up and I'm very much on the side that Jack's going nowhere given all the factors that I went through on my posts on this thread yesterday. I just think the chance of him leaving taking everything into consideration are less than him going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: No surprise you've missed the point. No I didn't miss the point, my answer was reflective of how ridiculous the example/context/ "point" was. Edited February 19, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: No I didn't miss the point, my answer was reflective of how ridiculous the example/context/ "point" was. At the risk of going round in circles. That's because you've missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I actually think Man U will get top 4. Chelsea look to have imploded and Spurs aren’t have lost Kane and Son. Maybe wolves have an outside chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not if we dont go down. No chance McGinn or Mings are going anywhere if we stay up and I'm very much on the side that Jack's going nowhere given all the factors that I went through on my posts on this thread yesterday. I just think the chance of him leaving taking everything into consideration are less than him going. Even if we go down I think we’ll keep Mings and McGinn for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: I actually think Man U will get top 4. Chelsea look to have imploded and Spurs aren’t have lost Kane and Son. Maybe wolves have an outside chance. I hope Wolves and Sheffield United get 4th and 5th respectively. Along with Leicester in the CL, it sends a message, particularly to Jack, that with the right moves, we can be right up there with the likes of United/Arsenal/Chelsea. There's really no need for him to go there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DCJonah said: At the risk of going round in circles. That's because you've missed the point. Loyalty is only asked for when you're good, if your shit nobody asks/cares for your " loyalty", for example, you wouldn't give a shit about the likes of Wesley being "loyal"? It's not like you said anything groundbreaking or complex, I just don't agree with it and think it's a one dimensional argument in relation to Jack Grealish. Edited February 19, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Loyalty is only asked for when you're good, if your shit nobody asks/cares for your " loyalty", for example, you wouldn't give a shit about the likes of Wesley being "loyal"? It's not like you said anything groundbreaking or complex, I just don't agree with it and think it's a one dimensional argument in relation to Jack Grealish. I think that's the point he's getting at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I think that's the point he's getting at. The funny thing is I actually addressed that specifically in an earlier post, but he must have missed it. lol The post you quoted was just me reiterating (repeating/demonstrating) that I got the initial point he was trying to make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Don't want either Wolves or Sheffield United getting into the champions league, that would put them in a massive position of strengh and give them a big advantage over us in the coming seasons should we stay up, or even if we go down. It's going to be hard enough catching up with the traditional top six, without wishing upon some of the others circumstances that puts them in a superior position as well. Edited February 19, 2020 by useless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Not if we dont go down. No chance McGinn or Mings are going anywhere if we stay up and I'm very much on the side that Jack's going nowhere given all the factors that I went through on my posts on this thread yesterday. I just think the chance of him leaving taking everything into consideration are less than him going. Problem is that we are going to go down 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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