bobzy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Keyblade said: If he came through at Arsenal for example, the English media would be creaming themselves as they have been with Jack Wilshere for the past decade. Meh, they did a little bit when we were Premier League. There was fairly constant "OMG England or Ireland?!?!" stuff going around. We play on this "London bias" stuff a bit too much at times. (Plus, Wilshere was a bigger talent than Grealish has ever been anyway.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, bobzy said: Meh, they did a little bit when we were Premier League. There was fairly constant "OMG England or Ireland?!?!" stuff going around. We play on this "London bias" stuff a bit too much at times. (Plus, Wilshere was a bigger talent than Grealish has ever been anyway.) Well according to man himself, our very own Gary Gardner was considered the bigger talent when they were coming through. Of course injuries had their say in who actually broke through and made a name for himself, but it really did help Wilshere that he was at Arsenal's academy and not ours for example. The hype around Wilshere was that he was an English midfielder who could pass and move and fit in Arsenal's system.. Really that was it. That's more of an indictment of English football/academies to be fair to him though. I can't remember a young English midfielder or any player for that matter coming through that possesses the technical skill that Jack does. His touch, awareness, balance, dribbling, vision etc for someone so young (think he was about 17 when breaking through) were unreal. I'm really surprised (and glad!) that more hasn't been made of him in the English press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Well according to man himself, our very own Gary Gardner was considered the bigger talent when they were coming through. Of course injuries had their say in who actually broke through and made a name for himself, but it really did help Wilshere that he was at Arsenal's academy and not ours for example. The hype around Wilshere was that he was an English midfielder who could pass and move and fit in Arsenal's system.. Really that was it. That's more of an indictment of English football/academies to be fair to him though. I can't remember a young English midfielder or any player for that matter coming through that possesses the technical skill that Jack does. His touch, awareness, balance, dribbling, vision etc for someone so young (think he was about 17 when breaking through) were unreal. I'm really surprised (and glad!) that more hasn't been made of him in the English press. Wilshere was in and around the first team of a “top 4” club at the age of 16. I think Grealish debuted for us at 19(?). It’s just different levels of ability. Now, Wilshere hasn’t made the most of it for various reasons (certainly injuries) but, honestly, it’s not just because he was at Arsenal. He was genuinely seen as one of Europe’s brightest talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Finally showing his potential keep it up son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: Well according to man himself, our very own Gary Gardner was considered the bigger talent when they were coming through. Of course injuries had their say in who actually broke through and made a name for himself, but it really did help Wilshere that he was at Arsenal's academy and not ours for example. The hype around Wilshere was that he was an English midfielder who could pass and move and fit in Arsenal's system.. Really that was it. That's more of an indictment of English football/academies to be fair to him though. I can't remember a young English midfielder or any player for that matter coming through that possesses the technical skill that Jack does. His touch, awareness, balance, dribbling, vision etc for someone so young (think he was about 17 when breaking through) were unreal. I'm really surprised (and glad!) that more hasn't been made of him in the English press. This it what worries me If he ever makes it to the England national team the hype and pressure they put on theese young players is unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, bobzy said: Wilshere was in and around the first team of a “top 4” club at the age of 16. I think Grealish debuted for us at 19(?). It’s just different levels of ability. Now, Wilshere hasn’t made the most of it for various reasons (certainly injuries) but, honestly, it’s not just because he was at Arsenal. He was genuinely seen as one of Europe’s brightest talents. I'm not really comparing their abilities per se, but more their play styles and how it contrasts with the typical "English" style which the English press usually fawn over because it's so rare. My point was if Jack played for a bigger club, even though he might not have been as good as Wilshere the media would have creamed themselves at the idea of a technically gifted British player. Hell, they tried really hard to claim Januzaj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 People actually wanted him sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 He has been superb for us but let's not forget he is tearing up the Championship. I don't think we need to be concerned with England call ups just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said: People actually wanted him sold. For £5m 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: He has been superb for us but let's not forget he is tearing up the Championship. I don't think we need to be concerned with England call ups just yet. There are tons of internationals in the Championship. The idea an England player can't come from the Championship goes hand in hand with England fans thinking we're better than we actually are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: There are tons of internationals in the Championship. The idea an England player can't come from the Championship goes hand in hand with England fans thinking we're better than we actually are. I think it's fair that all England Internationals should be playing at the highest level. Unless we are talking exceptional talents such as Rooney that would be on the brink of a big move anyway. Jack has been superb for us but no way has he done enough for an England call up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I think it's fair that all England Internationals should be playing at the highest level. Unless we are talking exceptional talents such as Rooney that would be on the brink of a big move anyway. Jack has been superb for us but no way has he done enough for an England call up. Like Jack Cork you mean? Or Jake Livermore? England just aren't very good. Maybe he hasn't done enough yet, maybe, but carry on like this and he will have. A bold manager would pick him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 23, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 23, 2018 The idea that a bunch of players exclusively from the PL means a strong England side is fundamentally flawed. What if all those players are wingers? You need players that fit a system, not the other way around. Grealish could add something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Like Jack Cork you mean? Or Jake Livermore? England just aren't very good. Maybe he hasn't done enough yet, maybe, but carry on like this and he will have. A bold manager would pick him. Don't Jack Cork and Jake Livermore play at the highest level of English football? Or have I missed something here? Edit: Yes I have Grealish is good but would need to produce far more to be considered England standard. Then again, if Oxlade-Chamberlain can... Edited January 23, 2018 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, bobzy said: Don't Jack Cork and Jake Livermore play at the highest level of English football? Or have I missed something here? Edit: Yes I have Grealish is good but would need to produce far more to be considered England standard. Then again, if Oxlade-Chamberlain can... Technically they do, does that automatically make them good enough? Though the point was made in relation to the second part of the post as I think you then realised Produce more than, I dunno, Loftus Cheek who has less assists in double the time? Yes, at a different level. In my opinion if you watch Jack play you'll see he's producing. I'm not saying he should start over Dele Alli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 12:52, dont_do_it_doug. said: Technically they do, does that automatically make them good enough? Though the point was made in relation to the second part of the post as I think you then realised Produce more than, I dunno, Loftus Cheek who has less assists in double the time? Yes, at a different level. In my opinion if you watch Jack play you'll see he's producing. I'm not saying he should start over Dele Alli. Think this is a bit far! Cairney has been doing it year after year in the Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said: Think this is a bit far! Cairney has been doing it year after year in the Champ. I think it's easy to become biased when it's one of your own. Jack is a very exciting prospect and one of our best players. But he has a long way to go before we're talking England international in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, gilbertoAVFC said: Think this is a bit far! Cairney has been doing it year after year in the Champ. Hate to embarrass you here but Cairney is Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Hate to embarrass you here but Cairney is Scottish. In the same way that Grealish is Irish. Wait, English? Or Irish? Whichever he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 23/01/2018 at 10:18, gilbertoAVFC said: People actually wanted him sold. Got way way way too much stick from this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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