Bolitics The New Condem Government

[wiganvillain]

Levi's post on page 16 (way too big to quote) I found very interesting and if you haven't yet then it's well worth a read.

To take it a stage further.

If this works then it will cause rifts in many parties.

The middle ground Labour sympathisers will see this as attractive and the wide left can bugger off to the SWP or reinvent the communists or actually stay as Labour as the rest join the "Centre Coalition" party.

The middle ground Tories would stay on board and join the "Centre Coalition" and the far right can piss off to the BNP where they belong or rope them in ti the New Tory party.

The Centre Coalition then starts infighting in about 20 years and we end up with 25 parties and permanent negotiated coalition government till doomsday

Anybody other than those bastions of the far left and right (Drat and Tony) see an issue with this

Thus leaving the rest of us happy and content in the knowledge that these extremists will still be heard via PR but that won't matter

Edited as forgot to end properly

[Gringo]

where have I said that? But when you have such differing views with very little in common, there is not compromise but there is capitulation and a disregard of your core beliefs that you have sold to the electorate.

Already I would say its off to a very bad start because of the abandonment of these core beliefs. Let's hope for our sakes that they are real and truthful - I remain totally unconvinced that they are

I agree that when a party abondons it's core beliefs in it's craving for power, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

[Condimentalist]

They lied (that was the word that many VT'ers used in regard to pre election promises so only using the same rules) - you are happy to buy it fair enough (interestingly now your stance is hidden behind the word compromise as I seem to remember many an occasion under the last lot that you quoted the manifesto as some sort of commitment with little or no allowance for changes of circumstances?).

Difference being, of course, that 'the last lot' shouldn't have needed to compromise in the same way because the weren't in coalition, as you know.

[Jon]

where have I said that? But when you have such differing views with very little in common, there is not compromise but there is capitulation and a disregard of your core beliefs that you have sold to the electorate.

Already I would say its off to a very bad start because of the abandonment of these core beliefs. Let's hope for our sakes that they are real and truthful - I remain totally unconvinced that they are

I agree that when a party abondons it's core beliefs in it's craving for power, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

touche.

and a corresponding drift away of its support too.

It's going to need to do a lot to get that support back. Trust is not easily re-engendered.

[JulieB]

I've just read a report that Hector Sant head of the Financial Services Authority who is to step down this summer emailed all 3,300 of his employees on election day to remind them that if the Tories were elected their jobs would be under threat.

How can the head of a government department try and influence how it's employees vote?

not to mention a gross misuse of tax payers time, when he should have been regulating!

Yes guys this is the same FSA that costs you and I over £400 Million per annum and for the last 2 years has paid themselves bonuses of £20M each year, despite failing to regulate the banks as well as a host of other failings.

[kidlewis]

I've just read a report that Hector Sant head of the Financial Services Authority who is to step down this summer emailed all 3,300 of his employees on election day to remind them that if the Tories were elected their jobs would be under threat.

How can the head of a government department try and influence how it's employees vote?

not to mention a gross misuse of tax payers time, when he should have been regulating!

Yes guys this is the same FSA that costs you and I over £400 Million per annum and for the last 2 years has paid themselves bonuses of £20M each year, despite failing to regulate the banks as well as a host of other failings.

along with the child trust fund the FSA is another half a billion waste of money. Both massive misuses of public money and both half arsed efforts at tackling a problem.

[Clarry]

Well the "city" are certainly happy. My girlfriend works in wine bar near Bank (the sort of place that nobody pays in cash). She only took £300 per lunchtime Monday and Tuesday, but £1,600 yesterday, mostly in champagne. At least she keeps the service charge to top-up her minimum wage.

[Demitri_C]

The LibDems have sold themselves out big style, the core voters are making themselves known and how much they feel let down it seems. This is not about compromise because typically that would be about just a couple of issues at max. The changes we are seeing already from both parties in this alliance on many of the key policies make it more than compromise and more a case of complete and utter U turn. The questions now have to be how much each of them are committed to these policies considering the fact that only a matter of days back they held totally differing viewpoints. How quickly would a Tory majority gvmt repeal and reverse any of these policies? You must admit there has never really been a common ground between LibDems and the Tory party so why should Joe Public believe that there has been this sudden change in each of the core beliefs in those parties now that will allow them to continue to work together?

ian we all have to look at the bigger picture hear, its bigger than your beliefs

the facts are labour have got us over 100m in debt, you ahve to put your differences aside in the interest of this country to sort this mess out.

i have anew found respect for both parties for at least trying to work together to resolve the issue. well done boys

[snowychap]

You are happy seemingly with a mix of ConDem - I can't see it working.

Am I? Where have I said that?

I did post:

p.s. I don't think that what we have does suit our country best. I am not in favour of any of the three major parties.

But go ahead and make up what you want.

[Richard]

Blimey, chaps.

She looks better in real life

[Rodders]

jesus christ.

yeah, ok, a minority government which oculd do **** all would have been by far the most sensible approach.

**** it. Yeah Labour were perfect, Blair and Brown never went back on anything they said, fuckssake. Might as well extend the anger to partisan supporters of any **** colour.

Chill out - a quick look at these threads prior to the election and you saw many comments from various people about commitments from manifesto's.

No one has said that any party is perfect - the facts are very obvious though that the ConDem parties have gone back on many of the conditions that that said they were putting forward within minutes. Maybe now we have to have two manifesto's when they allow us another vote - wont be for 5 years due to rule changes - one for outright win and one for alliance.

The thing is many many Lib Dem supporters are upset by what they see as a sell out by Clegg and even Cable is getting some stick - and IMO rightly so because they have gone against a lot of traditional and fundamental LibDem principles. There will be a honeymoon period but with people like Osborne and the Homophobe as Home Secretary we will see very quickly what they have joined with.

Interesting times - a laugh a minute so it seems

I was in a ranting mood last night, apologies for the needless aggro.

It's a coalition it's a compromise. there will be bits you like and bits you don't if you're a supporter of either party. It's not a natural alliance, but this is the PR type situation I thought was wanted - where the politicians work together and desist from the unedifying spats at PMQs which are just so embarrassing.

I have a fairly strong distrust of the tories, but I can see that they made an effort to get the lib dems on side whereas it appears though by no means definite, that Labour didn't.

Normally, us Lib Dem supporters ( not that' I'm rabidly LD, I'm not really )would have made our case and then been the 3rd party again with no influence, with it being easy to say it's all unfair etc etc. Now that there's a position to influence, people are upset that they can't do everything? Well, the way I see it, a fresh government was the 'desired' or 'media-desired' outcome at any rate, it's -in theory - a strong coalition, and this time there could be substantial electoral reform and a push to keep the tories from their mental thatcherite levels ( though there are people like liam fox, letwin and theresa may who I strongly dislike there ).

It could all go tits up, but frankly far better to give this shot a go, from an LD perspective, than have a minority government now, another election in a few months leading to a possible outright tory government where there'd be no concessions, no reform, and free-reign for a hard right campaign.

If LD get hit next election - even with AV or whatever is decided then - then it will be very sad, though hopefully over five years - if LD have got some of their issues through - they won't.

The idea that both tories and lib dems have abandoned principles etc or their activists is disingenuous. And if it had been lib-lab, Labour would have had to give and take too, so what would have said then if they'd sacrificed some ground ( albeit philosophically I accept those two parties are closer ) A solution was needed, it was clear there would be give and take whatever deals were made. And the whole putting on a united, happy front is surely just usual PR ( the other kind! ) they're hardly going to say: "um yeah, feck this is the only way forward... er shit it, oh well."

It just seemed evident in the aftermath that compromise would happen. Seems incredibly short-sighted to attack a party for doing so. I suppose maybe next time all manifestos should come with caveats in the event of hung parliaments to denote which policies are more susceptible to change. Perhaps that would be more honest?

It may prove to be a disaster, it may not. I don't know, but I wonder if all the labour legislation was entirely what their supporters would have expected 13 years ago?! Going on what I heard from labourites in my office leading up to election day last week, it appears not.

[jonno_2004]

And as a side point a little fact from Newsnight last night about the make up of this "compromise" cabinet makes interesting reading

"Blair's 1st Cabinet: 17% Oxbridge. The new Cabinet: 65% Oxbridge, 61% private school, over 90% white, middle aged men."

who gives a feck where they come from/where they were educated, if they are the best people for the job?

In classic VT fashion, this. Who cares where they have been educated as long as they are the right people.

[snowychap]

Blimey, chaps.

She looks better in real life

Something to confess, Richard?

[Richard]

Blimey, chaps.

She looks better in real life

Something to confess, Richard?

Only that she looks better in real life!

On the wider debate I have to say I have had a wry smile on my face reading the last few pages on here. Very amusing that the words lie and hypocrisy are being used. If only I wasn't such a fan of this site!

As to the coalition, well one thing they need to be aware of, and I am sure that they are, is anyone with a self serving attitude not interested in the good of the country but merely their own interests trying to rubbish this, or look for cracks where there are none.

Anyone who did that must surely be exposed as having sour grapes or double standards. However I think we are seeing lots of that now that the former government are in opposition.

[kidlewis]

the facts are labour have got us over 100m in debt

it's a bit more than that.

we are around £850bn in debt with a deficit of about £159.2bn.

[Richard]

Actually I think the deficit is 168BN and the debt is more like 1 trillion Here for some eye opening facts about the state of our finances

[Richard]

This page shows the deficit at 170BN thanks to Brown

[JulieB]

Actually I think the deficit is 168BN and the debt is more like 1 trillion Here for some eye opening facts about the state of our finances

And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to feel very strongly that in the next few days & weeks....George Osbourne with David Hall at his side will announce that the books of UK PLC are in alot worse state than they envisaged and consequently more drastic measures will be required...

Cue VAT rises to 20%.... etc etc etc

[kidlewis]

This page shows the deficit at 170BN thanks to Brown

well to be fair in regards to the bailout there wasn't much of an option, the srea of that graph that is unforgivable is pre 2007 when the figure should have been pretty much nothing, or even going the other way and actually having money to protect us from a recession.

[kidlewis]

Actually I think the deficit is 168BN and the debt is more like 1 trillion Here for some eye opening facts about the state of our finances

And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to feel very strongly that in the next few days & weeks....George Osbourne with David Hall at his side will announce that the books of UK PLC are in alot worse state than they envisaged and consequently more drastic measures will be required...

Cue VAT rises to 20%.... etc etc etc

and no doubt the tories will get blamed for the last governments mismanagement of the finances.