SPECULATION : Milner to City/Utd/Chelsea/Spurs

[BOF]

28 million worth of transfer fee?

Not sure I follow???

Kiddybloke is putting forward that a transfer fee dictated largely by the length of contract remaining combined with the manager's long term plans for bringing in his own players somehow reflects the outgoing player's ability.

[Rob182]

I really dont see what Stephen Ireland would offer that James Milner wouldn't?

Milner is excellent at doing the basics. He is an extremely hard-working and intelligent player with no real weaknesses. He has great technique but he lacks an unpredictability and an imagination that can unlock a stubborn defence. Ireland has more natural flair to his game and is an equally gifted footballer. He is a little more attack minded too and would link better with the strikers. Remember that before last season's interrupted campaign, Ireland was running the show in a midfield surrounded by 'stars' and he was the best of them all. What Ireland lacks is Milner's commitment and professionalism, but frankly every player in the Premier League probably lacks in that area compared to Milner.

There will always be plusses and minuses to bringing in a player over Milner and we're years from replacing him with a Schweinsteiger, if we ever will. Ireland was in and out of last season's team as they changed managers and Mancini tried to find 'his' team. The season before was more representative of what he can do and he did everthing in that midfield that Milner was doing in ours last season plus more.

My concerns over Ireland were never about his ability on the pitch. They were always about his head and what's in it. But I'm prepared to hope that I'm proven wrong if we were to get him. And if we did get him then I'd like to think he had a thing or 2 to prove to the team that let him go.

I totally agree with you BOF.

Venables once said about James Milner, from his Leeds days, that he was good at everything but not great at anything. Ireland is different. Ireland is great at picking a creative pass and at controlling the game from the centre of the field.

We'd miss Milner's workrate, graft, constant good play but occasionally lacking the top-quality pass or shot. But we'd gain Ireland's creativity, top drawer passes & a discipline in the centre of midfield.

But I think that if Milner goes we have to get Ireland as part of the deal. Where else will we find a midfielder who has prem experience, has shown the quality that he has (2 seasons ago), is rumoured to want to leave and will be a cut price as he's unwanted by his club?

[Pelle]

I certainly don't want to see Barry in a Villa-shirt again. Not because the way he left us, but because I think he's gone backwards big style since he joined them. If we're to sell Milner it should be solely for money, maybe for money and Ireland.

[Woodytom]

I really dont see what Stephen Ireland would offer that James Milner wouldn't?

Milner is excellent at doing the basics. He is an extremely hard-working and intelligent player with no real weaknesses. He has great technique but he lacks an unpredictability and an imagination that can unlock a stubborn defence. Ireland has more natural flair to his game and is an equally gifted footballer. He is a little more attack minded too and would link better with the strikers. Remember that before last season's interrupted campaign, Ireland was running the show in a midfield surrounded by 'stars' and he was the best of them all. What Ireland lacks is Milner's commitment and professionalism, but frankly every player in the Premier League probably lacks in that area compared to Milner.

There will always be plusses and minuses to bringing in a player over Milner and we're years from replacing him with a Schweinsteiger, if we ever will. Ireland was in and out of last season's team as they changed managers and Mancini tried to find 'his' team. The season before was more representative of what he can do and he did everthing in that midfield that Milner was doing in ours last season plus more.

My concerns over Ireland were never about his ability on the pitch. They were always about his head and what's in it. But I'm prepared to hope that I'm proven wrong if we were to get him. And if we did get him then I'd like to think he had a thing or 2 to prove to the team that let him go.

I totally agree with you BOF.

Venables once said about James Milner, from his Leeds days, that he was good at everything but not great at anything. Ireland is different. Ireland is great at picking a creative pass and at controlling the game from the centre of the field.

We'd miss Milner's workrate, graft, constant good play but occasionally lacking the top-quality pass or shot. But we'd gain Ireland's creativity, top drawer passes & a discipline in the centre of midfield.

But I think that if Milner goes we have to get Ireland as part of the deal. Where else will we find a midfielder who has prem experience, has shown the quality that he has (2 seasons ago), is rumoured to want to leave and will be a cut price as he's unwanted by his club?

What about his pass to Richard Dunne?

His free-Kick against Everton?

His passes for Heskey goals against Sunderland and Blackburn.

His goal up at Sunderland.

James Milner definately has the ability to play a top class pass or do the unexpected.

[Rob182]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

[Woodytom]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

and if we sign stephen ireland, youll see all the crap passes he does. There is nothing that ireland can do that milner cant. but there is plenty milner can do that ireland cant

[Damocles]

The Milner situation is stalled, we have rejected their bid and until they get really silly he aint going anywhere but Villa. Milner will negotiate a new deal with Villa in th e next 2 weeks, probably a one or two year extension to his deal and a near doubling of his wages.

Man City will never be able to earn the type of money from turnover that will allow them to pay many more £220,000 a week contracts, they will have to sell in order to allow themselves to even get close to UEFA's turnover rule.

On Ireland? Forget him or any other city player coming to Villa, their wage structure is in a different league to ours and 99% of the other teams in the PL. Most of their fringe players will sit their inflated contracts out in order to get wages close to what they have now, when they leave on bosmans.

With the greatest respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest that you read the actual rules.

"Players under contract before 1 June 2010

If a licensee reports an aggregate break-even deficit that exceeds the

acceptable deviation and it fulfils both conditions described below then this

would be taken into account in a favourable way.

i) It reports a positive trend in the annual break-even results (proving it has

implemented a concrete strategy for future compliance); and

ii) It proves that the aggregate break-even deficit is only due to the annual

break-even deficit of the reporting period ending in 2012 which in turn is

due to contracts with players undertaken prior to 1 June 2010 (for the

avoidance of doubt, all renegotiations on contracts undertaken after such

date would not be taken into account).

This means that a licensee that reports an aggregate break-even deficit that

exceeds the acceptable deviation but that satisfies both conditions described

under i) and ii) above should in principle not be sanctioned."

The acceptable deviation is the maximum aggregate break-even deficit possible

for a club to be deemed in compliance with the break-even requirement as

defined in Article 63.

2 The acceptable deviation is EUR 5 million. However it can exceed this level up

to the following amounts only if such excess is entirely covered by contributions

from equity participants and/or related parties:

a) EUR 45 million for the monitoring period assessed in the licence seasons

2013/14 and 2014/15;

EUR 30 million for the monitoring period assessed in the licence seasons

2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18;

c) a lower amount as decided in due course by the UEFA Executive Committee

for the monitoring periods assessed in the following years.

That means that firstly, there's a deviation of 45m gradually heading down to 5m in 8 years time, and secondly, that every single contract signed before this transfer window including the Tevez's and Adebayor's of this world can be written off.

You also fail to consider that we have the third highest attendance in the league, have sold out our seasoncards in record time and are about to expand our stadium. Our turnover has already jumped up and once the gloryhunters start coming in, it will jump some more. Then there's the issue of sponsorship deals which seem to be coming in for obscure things such as "Official Holiday Destination".

The Sheikh and his team of legal beagles aren't stupid and live in a fairyland, they're highly successful businessmen.

I also don't know where you have gotten the Milner information from, but it is different to MM's and to City's.

[ED]

I really dont see what Stephen Ireland would offer that James Milner wouldn't?

Milner is excellent at doing the basics. He is an extremely hard-working and intelligent player with no real weaknesses. He has great technique but he lacks an unpredictability and an imagination that can unlock a stubborn defence. Ireland has more natural flair to his game and is an equally gifted footballer. He is a little more attack minded too and would link better with the strikers. Remember that before last season's interrupted campaign, Ireland was running the show in a midfield surrounded by 'stars' and he was the best of them all. What Ireland lacks is Milner's commitment and professionalism, but frankly every player in the Premier League probably lacks in that area compared to Milner.

There will always be plusses and minuses to bringing in a player over Milner and we're years from replacing him with a Schweinsteiger, if we ever will. Ireland was in and out of last season's team as they changed managers and Mancini tried to find 'his' team. The season before was more representative of what he can do and he did everthing in that midfield that Milner was doing in ours last season plus more.

My concerns over Ireland were never about his ability on the pitch. They were always about his head and what's in it. But I'm prepared to hope that I'm proven wrong if we were to get him. And if we did get him then I'd like to think he had a thing or 2 to prove to the team that let him go.

I totally agree with you BOF.

Venables once said about James Milner, from his Leeds days, that he was good at everything but not great at anything. Ireland is different. Ireland is great at picking a creative pass and at controlling the game from the centre of the field.

We'd miss Milner's workrate, graft, constant good play but occasionally lacking the top-quality pass or shot. But we'd gain Ireland's creativity, top drawer passes & a discipline in the centre of midfield.

But I think that if Milner goes we have to get Ireland as part of the deal. Where else will we find a midfielder who has prem experience, has shown the quality that he has (2 seasons ago), is rumoured to want to leave and will be a cut price as he's unwanted by his club?

What about his pass to Richard Dunne?

His free-Kick against Everton?

His passes for Heskey goals against Sunderland and Blackburn.

His goal up at Sunderland.

James Milner definately has the ability to play a top class pass or do the unexpected.

his pass to Heskey in the 4-2 LC win at Pompey was sublime

[fran_villa]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

and if we sign stephen ireland, youll see all the crap passes he does. There is nothing that ireland can do that milner cant. but there is plenty milner can do that ireland cant

i dont think you have seen enough of Ireland playing tbh..

[The_Rev]

The fact he can play anywhere across the midfield too. He was England's best player against Slovenia whipping in quality cross after quality cross (and **** OPTA, their way of measuring the game is horribly broken sometimes)

[BOF]

We're into giving examples of individual passes now!? What about all the drawn games where there was no incisive pass from anyone in midfield and absolutely no clue about how to break a side down? I would hope that a player worth £28m-£30m would have a selection of 'sublime' passes that you could recite. But I see this discussion taking the oft-travelled VT path of one side ridiculously trying to make out that the other side thinks a player is crap when nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just saying Ireland would be a sufficient replacement for one of our best players. There are pros and cons as with any deal but I think he would give us something we don't currently have. Milner is not irreplaceable.

[Woodytom]

The individual passes were used as examples to prove that James Milner can make a great pass or shot. And to suggest that he cant is just ridiculous. You might say he doesnt do it every game, but who on this planet does? Certainly not Stephen ireland - I promise.

[Rob182]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

and if we sign stephen ireland, youll see all the crap passes he does. There is nothing that ireland can do that milner cant. but there is plenty milner can do that ireland cant

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen Ireland score goals that I can't image Milner scoring. Ireland get's into positions that Milner doesn't because he's too busy helping the wingers or the defenders.

[__pedro__]

I really dont see what Stephen Ireland would offer that James Milner wouldn't?

Milner is excellent at doing the basics. He is an extremely hard-working and intelligent player with no real weaknesses. He has great technique but he lacks an unpredictability and an imagination that can unlock a stubborn defence. Ireland has more natural flair to his game and is an equally gifted footballer. He is a little more attack minded too and would link better with the strikers. Remember that before last season's interrupted campaign, Ireland was running the show in a midfield surrounded by 'stars' and he was the best of them all. What Ireland lacks is Milner's commitment and professionalism, but frankly every player in the Premier League probably lacks in that area compared to Milner.

There will always be plusses and minuses to bringing in a player over Milner and we're years from replacing him with a Schweinsteiger, if we ever will. Ireland was in and out of last season's team as they changed managers and Mancini tried to find 'his' team. The season before was more representative of what he can do and he did everthing in that midfield that Milner was doing in ours last season plus more.

My concerns over Ireland were never about his ability on the pitch. They were always about his head and what's in it. But I'm prepared to hope that I'm proven wrong if we were to get him. And if we did get him then I'd like to think he had a thing or 2 to prove to the team that let him go.

Spot on. People are forgetting that 1 year ago, Ireland would have been considered the best young central midfielfer in the league and we wouldn't have dreamed of signing him for anything less than £20m. If this swap were to happen I can honestly see Ireland's value doubling next season as JM's has this year. There's alot to be said for playing in a settled team, somethink JM has benefitted from here and that he probably won't at City.

Ireland's temprament and personality are the only things i worry about in this

[bannedfromHandV]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

and if we sign stephen ireland, youll see all the crap passes he does. There is nothing that ireland can do that milner cant. but there is plenty milner can do that ireland cant

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen Ireland score goals that I can't image Milner scoring. Ireland get's into positions that Milner doesn't because he's too busy helping the wingers or the defenders.

And I've seen Milner score goals Ireland can only dream of:

away V Sunderland

home V Everton 2008/90 (free kick)

away v Blackburn (CC Semi final)

So what's your point?

Ireland is a decent player with a troubled past and an almost certain troubled future, to sign him would be footballing suicide.

[BOF]

The individual passes were used as examples to prove that James Milner can make a great pass or shot. And to suggest that he cant is just ridiculous. You might say he doesnt do it every game, but who on this planet does? Certainly not Stephen ireland - I promise.

Well fran said that not me. I made the more general observation that he doesn't have Ireland's imagination or unpredictability with a ball and he doesn't. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have any. Just that in those particular departments we'd be getting the flair player and that is something we've missed since Merson left.

[Stevo985]

I agree with BOF. Whilst I don't think ireland is a better player, he certainly has more capability for a moment of magic than Milner. milner has talent, but he puts himself on that level above everyone through hard work and commitment, not creativity and unpredictability.

[Woodytom]

I really dont see what Stephen Ireland would offer that James Milner wouldn't?

Milner is excellent at doing the basics. He is an extremely hard-working and intelligent player with no real weaknesses. He has great technique but he lacks an unpredictability and an imagination that can unlock a stubborn defence. Ireland has more natural flair to his game and is an equally gifted footballer. He is a little more attack minded too and would link better with the strikers. Remember that before last season's interrupted campaign, Ireland was running the show in a midfield surrounded by 'stars' and he was the best of them all. What Ireland lacks is Milner's commitment and professionalism, but frankly every player in the Premier League probably lacks in that area compared to Milner.

There will always be plusses and minuses to bringing in a player over Milner and we're years from replacing him with a Schweinsteiger, if we ever will. Ireland was in and out of last season's team as they changed managers and Mancini tried to find 'his' team. The season before was more representative of what he can do and he did everthing in that midfield that Milner was doing in ours last season plus more.

My concerns over Ireland were never about his ability on the pitch. They were always about his head and what's in it. But I'm prepared to hope that I'm proven wrong if we were to get him. And if we did get him then I'd like to think he had a thing or 2 to prove to the team that let him go.

Spot on. People are forgetting that 1 year ago, Ireland would have been considered the best young central midfielfer in the league and we wouldn't have dreamed of signing him for anything less than £20m. If this swap were to happen I can honestly see Ireland's value doubling next season as JM's has this year. There's alot to be said for playing in a settled team, somethink JM has benefitted from here and that he probably won't at City.

Ireland's temprament and personality are the only things i worry about in this

If he was that good the other year, why didnt he win YPOTY?

Oh that went to Ash - who I suppose isnt as good as Ireland either? Or is Ash as good as Ireland cos Ash isnt rumoured to be leaving like Milner?

[Shillzz]

I'd personally spuculate that, like all of the England players involved in the world cup, Milner will currently be on holiday somewhere. I dont think we'll hear anything about this for another week or so at the earliest as i imagine Oneill and Lerner will be keen to talk to him before sanctioning any move. I'd imagine that Oneill has told him to go off on holiday, have a think, then sort it out when he gets back.

[Rob182]

Yes, I know he does woodytom. I did say he is constantly good, but he also has days where he can't get a shot on target. Just because someone has offered us £20m for a player - it doesn't automatically make him worth that much when it comes to footballing ability.

Naming times when he has pulled off a great pass doesn't mean that every pass he has ever done is excellent.

and if we sign stephen ireland, youll see all the crap passes he does. There is nothing that ireland can do that milner cant. but there is plenty milner can do that ireland cant

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen Ireland score goals that I can't image Milner scoring. Ireland get's into positions that Milner doesn't because he's too busy helping the wingers or the defenders.

And I've seen Milner score goals Ireland can only dream of:

away V Sunderland

home V Everton 2008/90 (free kick)

away v Blackburn (CC Semi final)

So what's your point?

Ireland is a decent player with a troubled past and an almost certain troubled future, to sign him would be footballing suicide.

The last sentence is nonsense.

My point wasn't that Ireland is better than Milner and that Milner can't score spectacular goals - it's the type of goals that Ireland scores, and I believe Ireland would score for Villa.

As mentioned by a few others. Ireland has an unpredictability and flair that Milner doesn't. What Milner lacks in pace and flair he makes up for by running his socks off every game.

I'll rephrase my post so that you get what I'm saying. I've seen Ireland score goals that I don't think Milner would dare to attempt. Ireland is a cocky player which is, at times, what we're missing.