Jon Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 disagree there Jon. The Tory policy is still one that questions the existence of society - their spiritual leader famously said there was no such thing and she is one who the current lot still follow. You have to see how your loved ones fit society and ensure that society fits with them - its a two way thing. As you will see from my family history we are both users and givers to the whole society topic so you then have to consider if you would vote for a party that basically said "**** you look after yourself" or one that provided support mechanisms when needed. I've always voted what's best for society and the country in general, never for what benefit's me and my circle the most, which is what you said you would and should do. I think that is wrong, and implies that should your circumstances chnage, you would vote for the party which best caters for those changed circumstances. I disagree with that. I would be voting left were I a multi millionaire or an average Joe, although voting left as a multi millionaire would not directly be my best option, from a purely selfish point of view. I don't doubt that a huge swathe of the country votes purely on a "what's best for me" basis though. For shame :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 didnt watch the debate as I only just got in from work but what was that right at the end? Did Gordo forget or ignore the agreed procedure for the credits at the end? Seems that Camerwrong and Clugg stayed on the stage and Gordo dived into the crowd to press some flesh, leaving the other two on the stage looking a mixture of annoyed and bemused until they gave up and went on their own baby kissing excercise as the credits rolled Seemed the other two were annoyed by it anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbfAZ-ahqrU hilarious that! Did Gordy do a little cheat at the end there, diving into the crowd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 and why when talking about the NHS did DC go off on one about cancer? his segment on the NHS was largely about cancer pills, sorry but its got far bigger scope than that Because of Labour's immoral targeting of cancer patients, using a database they have no right to use. Oh just wait until my missus gets her Labour communique for cancer sufferers, I suspect she may try and shove down Gordo's throat herself. To say its pissed her off is an understatement Whereas my family who have two cancer sufferers in it have received fantastic treatment as a result of the NHS. Your anti-Labour bias shines out again Gutter politics spreading to VT it seems - yuk!! My anti-Labour bias? I think most people who actually read my posts (I don't actually include you in that Ian as seemingly you never actually understand them) would agree that I don't have an anti-Labour bias. I have an anti-politician bias, I'm only too pleased to admit but anti-Labour specifically? nah. Labour just get targeted more because they are in power, that is only natural as they are the current twunts that take liberties (quite literally too) So you think it's right that the Labour Party have used an NHS database (the letters / emails will probably go to the wrong address if our experience is anything to go by) of cancer patients, to deliver an election campaign message specifically targeted to sufferers of cancer? Me I think thats morally reprehensible as well as being an abuse of power. Doesn't matter which colour of Tory party did it, I'd say the same either way, just happens to be the red Tories this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Missed it all last night, but given that Clegg has seemingly certainly got good poll results, I imagine the other two will be more focussed and will attack him more in the next two elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 Not for the first and likely not for the last I totally agree Jon. My personal beliefs when I first gained the vote based on the policies of the parties saw me vote Labour, now my circumstances are very different and on a personal level I would likely benefit financially from a Tory election win but at this moment in time because I think they represent the best option for the majority of the country I will likely again vote Labour. While I see the point you are making Ian, I don't personally vote on the basis of what is best for me and mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 disagree there Jon. The Tory policy is still one that questions the existence of society - their spiritual leader famously said there was no such thing and she is one who the current lot still follow. You have to see how your loved ones fit society and ensure that society fits with them - its a two way thing. As you will see from my family history we are both users and givers to the whole society topic so you then have to consider if you would vote for a party that basically said "**** you look after yourself" or one that provided support mechanisms when needed. I've always voted what's best for society and the country in general, never for what benefit's me and my circle the most, which is what you said you would and should do. I think that is wrong, and implies that should your circumstances chnage, you would vote for the party which best caters for those changed circumstances. I disagree with that. I would be voting left were I a multi millionaire or an average Joe, although voting left as a multi millionaire would not directly be my best option, from a purely selfish point of view. I don't doubt that a huge swathe of the country votes purely on a "what's best for me" basis though. For shame :winkold: Thing is Jon - I am a parent, a grand parent, someone with elderly infirm family also - human nature dictates and society also that we prioritise towards them. That is not a Tory ideal at all far from it, their ideals are very much me and me being the singular. As said my immediate group both contribute to the whole society thing (some on a very big scale when it comes to health I would argue) and if due to a political policy they could not do that then that has to be factored into how you decide, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganvillain Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 I can't help it and Tony will hate it but as it started last night I looked at the 3 of them and thought "bloody hell Cameron looks just like Lord Snooty from the Beano" and the wife agreed so photo attached for others to decide. Winners, Clegg for style and a bit of content and Gordo did better than I thiught he would but still a bit "Lecturer". Cameron actually seemed shifty at times which was very unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Not for the first and likely not for the last I totally agree Jon. My personal beliefs when I first gained the vote based on the policies of the parties saw me vote Labour, now my circumstances are very different and on a personal level I would likely benefit financially from a Tory election win but at this moment in time because I think they represent the best option for the majority of the country. While I see the point you are making Ian, I don't personally vote on the basis of what is best for me and mine. Maybe I have missed a point in my posts then. I am a part of this whole society mullarky. I am fortunate that at the moment I have a well paid job so I feel that contributing more is not an issue. As a parent, grand parent, sibling of some that need care though I have a duty in society to help with them and ensure that they can also contribute back. Its whole middle ground thing. One one hand you have the Tory party that preaches the self self self attitude and then on the other you would have say a communist one where it was state only. Like you if it was personal only and forgetting kids etc, I probably would be quids better under the Tory party, but then really at what cost in terms of the world that I have to live in? But life can change at the drop of a hat and you have to hope that society and gvmt have the support mechanisms to ensure that we can continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 Well Cameron's face was the same colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 He did look very Lee Hendrie last night surely even the Tory supporters would admit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Nick Clegg blew the other two out of the water last night. Brown looked as uncomfortable and inept as ever, and at one point was actually pleading for Clegg to agree with him. Cameron looked like he was trying to flog Villas in a Spanish golfing resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 First Jez I neither believe the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, Express, the Sun, Sky News, Fox News etc etc etc. On benefits there is massive scare tactics and frankly xenophobic bordering on racist comments that seemingly get reported as fact. A few months back we had someone on here who said that they knew for a "fact" that someone had been given a 5 bedroom mansion in London as a benefit and that they were an illegal immigrant - or some bollox like that. As with all politics you should chose a party who offers the best for you and those you care for. In my family we have people who have / have had cancer, we have people working for the NHS, we have teachers, we have people who need care from "helpers" due to illness and disability, we have a one parent family, we have students at university, we have people working for Gvmt supported crime charity schemes. All of these are prime targets in their life areas for the headline makers of the rags as benefit scroungers etc etc. My experiences and from what I have read is that they will receive more necessary (needed) support under a Lab gvmt. So 3 guesses who get the tick in the box there? As with all schemes though of that size and complexity there will be cheats, errors and mistakes. It's a fact, but unlike some I don't subscribe to that being an excuse to cut benefits on the scale that we would see under a Tory gvmt Its not what the media have told me its from personal experience, i have known through being a friends family member or friends of friends more than half a dozen people just living for free! The connection to them that i know, all think its ridiculous and actively seek to encourage them to do something about it. They just dont, why should they? They get a house and benefit and dont have to do anything just because they took drugs or drank too much when they were younger! Its not down to any physical disability they are just plain lazy, they could quite easily work and contribute to the country in someway whether its working in a factory or delivery papers! Too many blumin lazy people these days! Obviously its not as straight forward as make them work as you have pointed out, but its got to this point because of the last 13 years of one party in power. As i said page previous its laughable that Brown has all these ideas for sorting things out, things that got worse during his parties reign! In that regard you could say i have a similar view to Bicks, they are all as crap as each other! But when it could be argued the above a long with the Labour government spending the money before they have heavily taxed us for it thus making the recession hit even harder its time for a change me thinks. Yes Labour has done good as well as bad, but so would another party coming in, freshning things up sorting things out before making their mistakes, rather than keep prolonging the current problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 Cameron looked like he was trying to flog Villas in a Spanish golfing resort. ......after a quick game of hide the sausage for old times sakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Cameron looked like he was trying to flog Villas in a Spanish golfing resort. what's the betting the Tory spin doctors had scratch-cards for the punters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 I can't help it and Tony will hate it but as it started last night I looked at the 3 of them and thought "bloody hell Cameron looks just like Lord Snooty from the Beano" and the wife agreed so photo attached for others to decide. Winners, Clegg for style and a bit of content and Gordo did better than I thiught he would but still a bit "Lecturer". Cameron actually seemed shifty at times which was very unexpected. I actually felt embarrassed for him and his supporters last night at one point. He is shifty for a reason, it dawned on him at one point "I'm ****ed". For a bloke that tells us he has met everyone currently living in the UK I find it strange that I have been fortuante to have never met anyone even remotely like him. SPEND HOURS / MONTHS / YEARS POSTING ON THE INTERWEB "Dave" IS THE MAN SPEND MILLIONS ON POSTERS TELLING US "Dave" IS THE MAN FINDING OUT IN FRONT OF MILLIONS THAT "Dave" IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE THE MAN Priceless :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 actually, being a lefty as I am ian, i disagree with that to a degree. That is, to an extent, a Tory philosophy: I'm going to vote for what's best for me. The "me first" society, espoused by Thatcher. It is also, to a large degree, a New Labour philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 It will never happen now, I was a little worried for a while but last night killed em off I think. In a country that judges 1000's of people on TV shows every week putting "Dave" on telly in front of millions of normal people was probably not the best idea in the world to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 16, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2010 I'm not sure last night will have changed all that much really, those who were interested enough to watch for 90 minutes probably hold firm political or party beliefs unlikely to be changed by what they heard. Those who don't hold such firm view probably couldn't be arsed to watch, I doubt it will change that many peoples votes come May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 they could quite easily work Ignoring the bit about all these people being blumin lazy, in order for that to happen there need to be jobs and people willing to employ them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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