ender4 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 36 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Energy bills will be driving some people back to the office during the winter months. That's true, it's nice and toasty in the office on a cold winters day. But depressing when you leave the office and it's dark outside. I do miss the lunchtimes outside in the hot summer, not quite the same sitting in my garden for a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 The reality is a lot of companies are returning to the office because they believe that the mass of people is more efficient organised in this way. Its also very likely that certain jobs are best organised from an office. Ive done a lot of work on Call Centre efficiency, all of the metrics point to the fact that call centres work better from an office. The individuals involved didnt necessarily have wfh space and preferred the social interactions that came with office work, the individuals dealt and answered more calls, the customer dialling in felt like the service they received was more professional and their calls were answered better, The irony is I made these conclusions while working from home. My role has me running many analytics teams globally and being in an office would still mean being on the phone. I do accept though that I have to spend a part of my year travelling to locations in order to build relationships and collaborate. I also often laugh at the fact that the VT wfh chat is most active during the day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 58 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: This is a really bizarre take. The reason this is the only thing that remains is because it's actually beneficial. We were, as a society, behind the times anyway and it took a pandemic to force us into change. Taking tests to fly, prebooking bars, one ways in supermarkets... none of that is comparable. Because none of that has a benefit outside of not spreading covid. WFH does. It's cheaper, it's more productive, it's better for morale, better for work life balance, cheaper for businesses etc etc The only people who don't like it are old school dinosaurs who think you have to be looking over somebody's shoulder for them to work i disagree it's more productive. i choose to go to the office every day despite being only mandated to do 3 days because i know my mindset is not geared to working from home and i therefore get much more done. my home place is not my work place so i know i'm less productive plus i have 2 big screens at work vs a poxy little laptop at home. i also find that me and my colleagues collaborate much more when we're in the office and on their work from home days there's a lot of "we'll sort this tomorrow when we're all in the office" becuase it's good to sit down at someone's desk and talk through or work on something. but i guess that's the job i do which involves a lot of team collaboration vs say, someone writing code all day or working in a call centre i could handle the pubs and restaurants being closed and not going to the football but the only thing i genuinely hated about COVID (i was lucky that no loved ones died) was working from home and i went back to the office voluntarily at my first opportunity. if that makes me an old school dinosaur then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i disagree it's more productive. i choose to go to the office every day despite being only mandated to do 3 days because i know my mindset is not geared to working from home and i therefore get much more done. my home place is not my work place so i know i'm less productive plus i have 2 big screens at work vs a poxy little laptop at home. i also find that me and my colleagues collaborate much more when we're in the office and on their work from home days there's a lot of "we'll sort this tomorrow when we're all in the office" becuase it's good to sit down at someone's desk and talk through or work on something. but i guess that's the job i do which involves a lot of team collaboration vs say, someone writing code all day or working in a call centre That's you. That's not everyone. It sounds like you have an inadequate setup to work from home. That's on you and your company. Most people will say they're more productive at home, almost overwhelmingly so. Some things need to be done in the office, which is why Hybrid working is such a good compromise. So it's fine that for you you're more productive at home. Nobody is saying you have to be. But it doesn't mean everyone should have to come back to the office because a few people aren't as productive. And the logic of "everything else related to covid has gone back to normal and so should this" is just mental 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 13 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i disagree it's more productive. i choose to go to the office every day despite being only mandated to do 3 days because i know my mindset is not geared to working from home and i therefore get much more done. my home place is not my work place so i know i'm less productive plus i have 2 big screens at work vs a poxy little laptop at home. I think it depends on the person. There are two people in my team who basically get no work done at home and seem to disappear for hours. But then there are people who definitely get more work done at home. For me personally, at work i have too many people popping by my desk and either wanting to chat or ask inane questions. I probably get 3-4 hours work done in the 8 hours i'm in the office. Whereas at home i am alone during the day with no distractions (except VT) and so just plough through my work in record time with great concentration and no interruptions. Sometimes i'm so in the zone, i look up from my screen and i've missed my normal lunchtime or the workday has ended and i didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Energy bills will be driving some people back to the office during the winter months. Whats the cost of having the heating on all day, about £5-6? I guess it depends on the commute cost, extra time, fancy coffee, lunch in the staff canteen etc etc. Still much cheaper for me personally to stay home, the return drive is about £12 a day in diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That's you. That's not everyone. It sounds like you have an inadequate setup to work from home. That's on you and your company. Most people will say they're more productive at home, almost overwhelmingly so. Some things need to be done in the office, which is why Hybrid working is such a good compromise. So it's fine that for you you're more productive at home. Nobody is saying you have to be. But it doesn't mean everyone should have to come back to the office because a few people aren't as productive. And the logic of "everything else related to covid has gone back to normal and so should this" is just mental the point i was making was more around people's surprise that companies would one day want their staff back to the office. of course they would. once the restrictions were all lifted, it was an inevitability. we had people say "well i've got a dog now that needs walking every afternoon". like did these people really think they'd be working from home forever? by the way, i'm talking about large companies here, not smaller firms that can close down an entire office and just have their 20 or so staff work remotely you say hybrid working is a good compromise so we're in agreement. no one should be forced to work from the office 5 days a week now, i get that, things have changed. it just surprises me that people find it so difficult to go into the office a day or 2 a week when they didn't think twice doing it 5 days a week a few years back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 9 minutes ago, ender4 said: I think it depends on the person. There are two people in my team who basically get no work done at home and seem to disappear for hours. at my firm i know for a fact that the technology is available to measure keystrokes, time in applications etc etc. it's not being utilised, but i wonder when we'll see in the news that a company is using it to measure performance (i.e. work out who's just moving their mouse every couple of minutes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Genie said: Whats the cost of having the heating on all day, about £5-6? I guess it depends on the commute cost, extra time, fancy coffee, lunch in the staff canteen etc etc. Still much cheaper for me personally to stay home, the return drive is about £12 a day in diesel. I was careful to include the words ‘some people’ and its going to vary on cost of commute, quality of home insulation, personal temperature comfort level. I’ll work from home quite happily, partner walks in the door about 4 and will announce it’s bloody freezing in here! No, it’s not freezing, it’s 18c which is more than enough if you’re engrossed in your work. I’d never say that last bit, obviously. But yeah, if I go to the office, I can be spending crazy on coffee and records. If i stay home, I graze the cupboard and fridge, which is not my budget item so essentially free. I’d never say that out loud either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Just now, tomav84 said: at my firm i know for a fact that the technology is available to measure keystrokes, time in applications etc etc. it's not being utilised, but i wonder when we'll see in the news that a company is using it to measure performance (i.e. work out who's just moving their mouse every couple of minutes) I noticed a few months ago the “idle” setting in MS Teams seemed to be set dramatically shorter than it was for us. Only a couple of minutes of inactivity (making a drink or taking a quick shit) and the icon goes amber. That seemed like a small adjustment to catch out some of the shirkers. On a day to day basis though I have to say I don’t really see any evidence of my colleagues going AWOL. In the office it was pretty much impossible to find people, nowadays it’s much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 34 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i disagree it's more productive. i choose to go to the office every day despite being only mandated to do 3 days because i know my mindset is not geared to working from home and i therefore get much more done. my home place is not my work place so i know i'm less productive plus i have 2 big screens at work vs a poxy little laptop at home. On the other hand I have a dedicated home office with 2 50" widescreens, a more ergonomic chair and a desk that can change between sitting/standing. It's bloody awful going and working on 2 piddly little 24" monitors Edited January 18 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: On the other hand I have a dedicated home office with 2 50" widescreens, a more ergonomic chair and a desk that can change between sitting/standing. It's bloody awful going and working on 2 piddly little 24" monitors 2x 50” monitors I have a 22” and a 24” which are absolutely fine but I keep thinking about upgrading a single 34”, curved, ultra wide monitor. How far away are you sitting from those monster monitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 58 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the point i was making was more around people's surprise that companies would one day want their staff back to the office. of course they would. once the restrictions were all lifted, it was an inevitability. we had people say "well i've got a dog now that needs walking every afternoon". like did these people really think they'd be working from home forever? by the way, i'm talking about large companies here, not smaller firms that can close down an entire office and just have their 20 or so staff work remotely you say hybrid working is a good compromise so we're in agreement. no one should be forced to work from the office 5 days a week now, i get that, things have changed. it just surprises me that people find it so difficult to go into the office a day or 2 a week when they didn't think twice doing it 5 days a week a few years back I don't think people find it difficult, they find it unnecessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Genie said: 2x 50” monitors I have a 22” and a 24” which are absolutely fine but I keep thinking about upgrading a single 34”, curved, ultra wide monitor. How far away are you sitting from those monster monitors? One of them is a curved ultrawide so is basically just in the usual position that is like having 2 normal monitors side by side but without annoying bezels, and I do 90% of work stuff on that. I definitely recommend an ultrawide for work stuff, it gives way more flexibility for managing windows The other one is up on the wall and just used for emails/IMs/ dashboards and other alerts (and is my gaming screen when I'm not working ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Genie said: I noticed a few months ago the “idle” setting in MS Teams seemed to be set dramatically shorter than it was for us. Only a couple of minutes of inactivity (making a drink or taking a quick shit) and the icon goes amber. That seemed like a small adjustment to catch out some of the shirkers. On a day to day basis though I have to say I don’t really see any evidence of my colleagues going AWOL. In the office it was pretty much impossible to find people, nowadays it’s much easier. Agreed and I don't think any measures to track productivity (well for most of us) based on mouse movement or keyboard typing can be properly enforced. Those measures (e.g. the status going amber on MS Teams) are meaningless and for me, only serve to show others that you may be momentarily away so don't expect an immediate response to messages. I've even manually set my status as an amber "away" to put off people messaging me when I'm attempting to complete something important*. Other times, I'm working but I'm sat here scribbling things out in my notepad to gather my thoughts for the next big meeting. I'm not actively working on the work laptop, but I'm working. I've missed calls on occasion when working from home and "aaaah, on Netflix was you?" is an example of a smarmy comment I've had in the past from colleagues. No, I set my status as "Do Not Disturb" for half an hour for a reason as I wanted to get some space away from the laptop to jot a few things down and properly think about things ready for that meeting they called for on the afternoon. I've been tempted to say "yes I was!" as we work flexible working hours and my boss is always off away for walks (and tells us to do the same if we would like to). I've also pointed out to others that I was logged on at 7AM doing things (and please action the things I've talked about in the emails I've sent) whilst they didn't appear until gone 9AM (sometimes 10AM). It has to be said too that if I was in the office, I wouldn't be chained to a desk and would be meeting people to discuss things over a coffee etc. Inevitably things would take a lot longer and I never got the "aaaah, down the pub was you?" (or similar) when working in the office full time but away from my desk. For what it's worth, today is a day off . *It's not worthy of a kw.gif 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Genie said: I noticed a few months ago the “idle” setting in MS Teams seemed to be set dramatically shorter than it was for us. Only a couple of minutes of inactivity (making a drink or taking a quick shit) and the icon goes amber. The weird thing about that is that i could be reading something that takes 10 mins to fully understand it without moving my mouse or pressing a key... or i might be making notes using a pen and paper first... or on a call for half an hour. It would think i'm idle for all those scenarios. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: at my firm i know for a fact that the technology is available to measure keystrokes, time in applications etc etc. it's not being utilised, but i wonder when we'll see in the news that a company is using it to measure performance (i.e. work out who's just moving their mouse every couple of minutes) This is something else that would make me hand my notice in at work. Unless your job is specifically data entry or something similar, this is not how you measure productivity 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 17 hours ago, Sid4ever said: We’ve just moved out of our building at the airport to an office in Didsbury. Get me back to the airport for my 1 day a week in the office. East, West or that road in the middle? On to me, I haven't been to the office in nearly 5 years as far as I can work out. I couldn't do it. I don't have to now, but if I was supposed to, I still wouldn't go. ****. That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 18 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: This is something else that would make me hand my notice in at work. Unless your job is specifically data entry or something similar, this is not how you measure productivity oh i agree and it would make headline national news were a company ever to start doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Energy bills will be driving some people back to the office during the winter months. Energy prices will be back down to their old price levels by next winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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