Title race 2023/4

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

Absolutely. Title winning teams do lose at man u... but not after being 2-0 up at half time. They also don't drop five points to two of the worst teams in the league including potentially one of the worse ever to be in the league.

 

The Man City performance took a toll. We are still trying to recover.

[useless]

Most posts in this thread were serious about us being title challangers, it didn't look like a joke thread to me, at least not over the last month or so, to be honest If anyone thought we were really in the title race, then I don't see how last night's result changes that idea, every team in the title race will lose games between now and the end of the season, and we're still only three points off the top of the table, with some fixtures to come that if we perform to our best in we're capable of getting a good haul of points from.

But I personally never thought we were in the title race, for me the talk was dangerous, as it was driving expectations too high, suddenly we were getting people talking as if us finishing fifth or sixth would be a bad season, and taking it as a diss if someone in the media said that that would be a good season, no it would not be a bad season, it would infact be our best league season in a long time, how cruel to ourselves would it be to frame our best season in ten plus years as a disappointment because of unrealistic expectations of winning the league.

Of course we can hope for a miracle, but at the same time should recognize that it's very unlikely, this must be distinctly understood, or us finishing top six, or even top four, won't seem as wonderous as it should do, should we achieve those worthy heights.

[TRO]

Its a narrative, just designed by the media, to take the Pee out of us when we fail.

We all know, its pie in the sky....even before last nights game.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Most posts in this thread were serious about us being title challangers, it didn't look like a joke thread to me, at least not over the last month or so, to be honest If anyone thought we were really in the title race, then I don't see how last night's result changes that idea, every team in the title race will lose games between now and the end of the season, and we're still only three points off the top of the table, with some fixtures to come that if we perform to our best in we're capable of getting a good haul of points from.

But I personally never thought we were in the title race, for me the talk was dangerous, as it was driving expectations too high, suddenly we were getting people talking as if us finishing fifth or sixth would be a bad season, and taking it as a diss if someone in the media said that that would be a good season, no it would not be a bad season, it would infact be our best league season in a long time, how cruel to ourselves would it be to frame our best season in ten plus years as a disappointment because of unrealistic expectations of winning the league.

Of course we can hope for a miracle, but at the same time should recognize that it's very unlikely, this must be distinctly understood, or us finishing top six, or even top four, won't seem as wonderous as it should do, should we achieve those worthy heights.

Onoda believes we have a chance.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

Absolutely. Title winning teams do lose at man u... but not after being 2-0 up at half time. They also don't drop five points to two of the worst teams in the league including potentially one of the worse ever to be in the league.

 

perspective.

[andym]

17 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Yep, two chances to go top (win tonight and we'd have had an opportunity to do it v Burnley) and we've come short both times and in different ways.

No shame as bitterly disappointing as that second half was but this is an important lesson for the players. We will have far more high pressure games than this in April/May if we want to finish top 4 and actuallly win something so they need to show a bit more in digging in then they did at 1-2 as that was very poor to witness.

But was that down to failing to deal with pressure?

We've dug it out plenty of times this season, and end of last season we got over the line including the crucial final game against Brighton to get into the conference league. Before last night we hadn't dropped any points from winning positions this season (no other team bettered that), so was bound to happen at some point, although for it to happen in that manner was galling.

We need a freshen up, because some of the errors we've made last two games, in attack against Sheffield with endless sloppy passes in the final third, and defensively against Man U scream fatigue to me - the Carlos pass was a stand out, but Lenglet and McGinn's attempted blocks/clearances for the other two goals were also really poor.

The thursday/sunday routine with Europe can catch teams out if they are not used to it (see West Ham last season who look to have learnt from that this year, and Brighton so far this season), and we've had the added issue of 4 starters (and key contributors) from last season missing nearly all of this.

[VillaChris]

Sheffield United lost from 2-1 up at home to Luton so I'd say not finding a way to beat them at home and really not playing that well was the pressure or at least the expectation of going top getting to us a little bit.

When we played Luton they barely got out of their own half all game but we still strolled to a 3-0 lead.

Last night was incredibly frustrating aswell just for blowing a lead like all the previous times we've done it v Man. United home or away so probably a bit more reactionary based on the opponent as it wouldn't quite have hit so hard if it had occurred v Man. City or Arsenal (as could well happen later on in the season).

Ultimately this is still just about masquerading as some sort of title thread so ultimately if you want to be a serious contender you have to take your chances to go top when they arise and we haven't been good enough on two occasions and two different game scenarios.

[andym]

18 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Sheffield United lost from 2-1 up at home to Luton so I'd say not finding a way to beat them at home and really not playing that well was the pressure or at least the expectation of going top getting to us a little bit.

When we played Luton they barely got out of their own half all game but we still strolled to a 3-0 lead.

Last night was incredibly frustrating aswell just for blowing a lead like all the previous times we've done it v Man. United home or away so probably a bit more reactionary based on the opponent as it wouldn't quite have hit so hard if it had occurred v Man. City or Arsenal (as could well happen later on in the season).

Ultimately this is still just about masquerading as some sort of title thread so ultimately if you want to be a serious contender you have to take your chances to go top when they arise and we haven't been good enough on two occasions and two different game scenarios.

I think Sheffield Utd was more complacency than expectation getting to us, Unai's approach for certain games has clearly been to try and win within ourselves (thinking long term till the end of the season and energy conservation), given the speed we play at at times, but we took it to an extreme against Sheffield, where we played at a snails pace. Although i think we could have expected the ref/VAR to do their job properly on at least one of the occasions where they messed up.

You are spot on with your final point -  ultimately it all comes down to taking your chances when you get them, and for whatever reason, we couldn't.

[Pongo Waring]

Least we're back under the radar. Hated being the media darlings.

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, Pongo Waring said:

Least we're back under the radar. Hated being the media darlings.

Media started to speak about us a little more, but don't kid yourself, we were in no way the media darlings. Not one thought we had any chance of the title, an many still think we have no chance of CL football. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by foreveryoung

[maqroll]

2 hours ago, useless said:

Most posts in this thread were serious about us being title challangers, it didn't look like a joke thread to me, at least not over the last month or so, to be honest If anyone thought we were really in the title race, then I don't see how last night's result changes that idea, every team in the title race will lose games between now and the end of the season, and we're still only three points off the top of the table, with some fixtures to come that if we perform to our best in we're capable of getting a good haul of points from.

But I personally never thought we were in the title race, for me the talk was dangerous, as it was driving expectations too high, suddenly we were getting people talking as if us finishing fifth or sixth would be a bad season, and taking it as a diss if someone in the media said that that would be a good season, no it would not be a bad season, it would infact be our best league season in a long time, how cruel to ourselves would it be to frame our best season in ten plus years as a disappointment because of unrealistic expectations of winning the league.

Of course we can hope for a miracle, but at the same time should recognize that it's very unlikely, this must be distinctly understood, or us finishing top six, or even top four, won't seem as wonderous as it should do, should we achieve those worthy heights.

It's not the loss that concerns me, its the nature of the loss. It suggests psychological fragility and physical fatigue. And it seems like teams are more prepared for how we play.

We need a comprehensive reset, and I hope we can start the reset with a win vs Burnley.

[foreveryoung]

I was never thinking we could challenge for the title. But in reality us fans were only thinking that way, an maybe still are, just to cover our blushes.  Putting the forest game in a box, as we genuinely had a off day there, we defo should have beat that poor Sheffield United team and kept the 2 goal lead last night. Just those games would have put us 2 points clear at the top, 2 games that kinda just slipped through our grasp, rather than being outplayed. Even if we conceeded that Man U will always gonna beat us, we would still be a clear 2nd, that Sheffield game was the one that truely *****ed us.

[ChesterDad]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I was never thinking we could challenge for the title. But in reality us fans were only thinking that way, a maybe still are, just to cover our blushes.  Putting the forest game in a box, as we genuinely had an off day there, we defo should have beat that poor Sheffield United team and kept the 2 goal lead last night. Just those games would have put us 2 points clear at the top, 2 games that kinda just slipped through our grasp, rather than being outplayed. Even if we conceeded that Man U will always gonna beat us, we would still be a clear 2nd, that Sheffield game was the one that truely *****ed us.

Personally I think last night might be what proves to have the biggest negative impact on the players and their mentality.

I was not expecting us to beat Sheff Utd - Wilder is a cagey old sod, who loves nothing more than stealing points off the “ bigger boys” 

And we did claw our way back into the game and finished on a high, whereas last night was the total opposite. 
I’m hoping for a good win against Burnley and hopefully a stellar signing to add a bit of new impetus

[danceoftheshamen]

So having absorbed the last 2 "performances" and having calmed down a little now, I think it clearly shows that we are very weak in certain area's still. Especially when losing a few first choice mainstays.

Kamara is clearly essential to us, we obviously need another RB too and the Mings injury is coming home to roost right now too. We are also lacking another good option up front so when Watkins is off the boil we have a viable alternative to come in. 

There is no way, in my view, that we are in a title race as things stand. A few signings in Jan might keep us up there but that's an awful lot of ifs buts & maybe's as firstly any new signing would have to hit the ground running, which of course is never guaranteed.

For me our form has dipped alarmingly since Torres & Kamara have been out. Notably since Cash & Ramsey have come back into the team also. We are clearly not working on the right hand side at the moment. I feel both Diaby & Bailey have gone massively off the boil & even Watkins has gone back to the ineffective, annonymous version of himself. Lots of huff & puff with a poor touch. He is the most likely to poach a goal however and with no alternative it makes us very predictable to play against currently. 

Block us off and allow the ineffective wide players like Cash, Bailey, Diaby & Digne to have the ball and we are powder puff. Surround Watkins and then counter us with rapid wide players making runs from deep & we struggle. Brentford, Sheff Utd & Utd second half all did this and we struggled massively. That Croatian "Mostar" team did the same too & it was like watching a re-run of the game against them against Sheff Utd too.

I think we'll be competitive once Torres & Kamara are back but to challenge for top 4 we need new signings. 

The biggest issue is Duran, he looks a liability when he comes on at the moment and Watkins is looking jaded.

Shocking performance that second half at Manure though, it was all self inflicted too from what I was watching constantly just gifting them the ball back giving them more than enough opportunity to break our offside which is clearly the issue as they have players who know how to run onto a simple ball over the top. They always do it against us and yet we keep on givng them chance after chance to have another go at it. Attrocious performance.

 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I was never thinking we could challenge for the title. But in reality us fans were only thinking that way, an maybe still are, just to cover our blushes.  Putting the forest game in a box, as we genuinely had a off day there, we defo should have beat that poor Sheffield United team and kept the 2 goal lead last night. Just those games would have put us 2 points clear at the top, 2 games that kinda just slipped through our grasp, rather than being outplayed. Even if we conceeded that Man U will always gonna beat us, we would still be a clear 2nd, that Sheffield game was the one that truely *****ed us.

I actually think the Man Utd loss was much more harmful because the match was won at halftime but we collapsed. Sheffield set up to get a 0-0 point. They were always going to be tough to score against.

But we did score, and rescued the point.

[foreveryoung]

4 minutes ago, maqroll said:

I actually think the Man Utd loss was much more harmful because the match was won at halftime but we collapsed. Sheffield set up to get a 0-0 point. They were always going to be tough to score against.

But we did score, and rescued the point.

Now I have just about come back down to earth, i think Pau and Bouba missing was a big issue, an Telimans starting to look sharp, would have been a big miss too. Maybe with these guys we would have held on.

I guess we need to trust Unai to get them reset, an dissolve any of the anxiety they may have going forward. 

[stewiek2]

In retrospect, we've just played 9 games on 31 days and lost once. The Sheffield United result has really made last night hurt more. It's not doom and gloom but it's how we bounce back that matters. I expect us to put it right against Burnley. The Don knows.

Edited December 27, 2023 by stewiek2

[Pongo Waring]

Man city losing.

 

Get in there 

[StefanAVFC]

Are city out of the title race?

[Delphinho123]

7 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

Man city losing.

 

Get in there 

We could be sat 10 points above them. Frustrating.