KentVillan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 19/02/2024 at 19:45, Risso said: Clearly the main reason he isn't playing more regularly, is that he's absolutely shite. I am tending towards this view too, which usually means he’ll now score 5 in 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 8 hours ago, DakotaVilla said: You would think he would have opportunities in the Europa to impress and make a meaningful contribution but he has Diaby and Rogers ahead of him in the queue for minutes so is fast running out of time to earn a transfer. Diaby yes, but he’s come on ahead of Rogers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I was really wrong about this guy. Thought he would come good. A shame but at least it’s a loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 He's absolutely pap. No doubt he must have been some talent the way people talk about him but bad injuries. You're not moving from a top 5 league to Turkey in your 20s because you're a top top talent. A punt like Tielemans. Well worth it, based on supposed talent and the finances not breaking the bank. ...but no, absolutely not a PL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digavilla Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 It’s really weird that no Italian attacking players have succeeded in the Premier League in recent times. Their current best Sacamacca / Moses Kean also flopped here. The only one with some relative successful is Balotelli, and that’s also subjective. Unless he’s an outlier, the odds is really against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 21 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21 9 hours ago, rodders0223 said: He's absolutely pap. No doubt he must have been some talent the way people talk about him but bad injuries. You're not moving from a top 5 league to Turkey in your 20s because you're a top top talent. A punt like Tielemans. Well worth it, based on supposed talent and the finances not breaking the bank. ...but no, absolutely not a PL player. He moved to Turkey because he had a falling out with the management, not because he was rubbish. He was sent to the Coventry of the Mediterranean. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Looks doubtful we’ll sign him permanently. I want to see at least one left footed thunder bastard before he leaves though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 We have first option still so ultimately it’s up to Unai. Nico was in the training pics today so he might feature on the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted February 22 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22 On 21/02/2024 at 15:43, Digavilla said: It’s really weird that no Italian attacking players have succeeded in the Premier League in recent times. Their current best Sacamacca / Moses Kean also flopped here. The only one with some relative successful is Balotelli, and that’s also subjective. Unless he’s an outlier, the odds is really against him. He’s no white feather, that’s for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleVilla Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 21/02/2024 at 06:48, rodders0223 said: He's absolutely pap. No doubt he must have been some talent the way people talk about him but bad injuries. You're not moving from a top 5 league to Turkey in your 20s because you're a top top talent. A punt like Tielemans. Well worth it, based on supposed talent and the finances not breaking the bank. ...but no, absolutely not a PL player. I think the move to Turkey was a late move to get him out of Rome. He clearly had to leave and that seemed the only viable option at the time (IIRC). Was too late for any of the other european clubs to potentially come in for him. They probably kept an eye on him and how he did there before re-assessing. But I agree, it's not a progressive move from Serie A. I'm sure he was hoping to pickup his form there and get a move to a bigger club. I have to admit I'd had high hopes for him, especially with Emery working with him. But it's not appearing to work out. Reminds me of the Barkley loan. Flashes of good performances and the odd goal but ultimately not what we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 21 hours ago, HKP90 said: He moved to Turkey because he had a falling out with the management, not because he was rubbish. He was sent to the Coventry of the Mediterranean. I thought he fell out with the fans more than anything, and that’s because they thought he was rubbish for ages, and then he fell out with the whole club. It seemed like he was treated poorly and especially considering the injuries he’d suffered. We took a gamble on him based on his successful spell at Turkey, sometimes these things work and sometimes they don’t. But perhaps in hindsight buying a player based on 10 good games in the Turkish league after several seasons of injuries and poor form is probably not a good idea. £5m for Philogene Bidace or £5m+ for Zaniolo for one season, unfortunately it seems like the club has dropped a clanger. He seems like a decent enough guy, hopefully he resurrects his career somewhere eventually. You can see he has talent but trying to rebuild his career in the intensity of the PL just isn’t going to happen from what we’ve all seen of him so far. Edited February 22 by david-avfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 22 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22 31 minutes ago, david-avfc said: I thought he fell out with the fans more than anything, and that’s because they thought he was rubbish for ages, and then he fell out with the whole club. It seemed like he was treated poorly and especially considering the injuries he’d suffered. We took a gamble on him based on his successful spell at Turkey, sometimes these things work and sometimes they don’t. But perhaps in hindsight buying a player based on 10 good games in the Turkish league after several seasons of injuries and poor form is probably not a good idea. £5m for Philogene Bidace or £5m+ for Zaniolo for one season, unfortunately it seems like the club has dropped a clanger. He seems like a decent enough guy, hopefully he resurrects his career somewhere eventually. You can see he has talent but trying to rebuild his career in the intensity of the PL just isn’t going to happen from what we’ve all seen of him so far. Thought I read that the main fallout was with the owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post romavillan Posted February 22 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, david-avfc said: I thought he fell out with the fans more than anything, and that’s because they thought he was rubbish for ages, and then he fell out with the whole club. It seemed like he was treated poorly and especially considering the injuries he’d suffered. We took a gamble on him based on his successful spell at Turkey, sometimes these things work and sometimes they don’t. But perhaps in hindsight buying a player based on 10 good games in the Turkish league after several seasons of injuries and poor form is probably not a good idea. £5m for Philogene Bidace or £5m+ for Zaniolo for one season, unfortunately it seems like the club has dropped a clanger. He seems like a decent enough guy, hopefully he resurrects his career somewhere eventually. You can see he has talent but trying to rebuild his career in the intensity of the PL just isn’t going to happen from what we’ve all seen of him so far. Well, the ultras eventually were intent on **** him up after he'd been scapegoated and to be fair he was an easy target. He was threatened in a way that would be impossible in the UK, and Mourinho (the word removed) fanned the flames, especially after a game against Napoli IIRC. It was an impossible situation even if he wanted to play. So probs his representatives and AS Roma were trying to find a way out at all costs. He could still do it here, who knows. If he can hit some form he'll make a big impact. Bailey was completely written off, at one point even @JAMAICAN-VILLAN was saying it hadn't worked out. That was after he'd had more time than Zaniolo has had... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 15 hours ago, romavillan said: Well, the ultras eventually were intent on **** him up after he'd been scapegoated and to be fair he was an easy target. He was threatened in a way that would be impossible in the UK, and Mourinho (the word removed) fanned the flames, especially after a game against Napoli IIRC. It was an impossible situation even if he wanted to play. So probs his representatives and AS Roma were trying to find a way out at all costs. He could still do it here, who knows. If he can hit some form he'll make a big impact. Bailey was completely written off, at one point even @JAMAICAN-VILLAN was saying it hadn't worked out. That was after he'd had more time than Zaniolo has had... Yes on a personal level, it must have been a hard few years with the bad injury and leaving your boyhood club (Jack take note). He does seem a bit lost when he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 19 hours ago, david-avfc said: I thought he fell out with the fans more than anything, and that’s because they thought he was rubbish for ages, and then he fell out with the whole club. It seemed like he was treated poorly and especially considering the injuries he’d suffered. We took a gamble on him based on his successful spell at Turkey, sometimes these things work and sometimes they don’t. But perhaps in hindsight buying a player based on 10 good games in the Turkish league after several seasons of injuries and poor form is probably not a good idea. £5m for Philogene Bidace or £5m+ for Zaniolo for one season, unfortunately it seems like the club has dropped a clanger. He seems like a decent enough guy, hopefully he resurrects his career somewhere eventually. You can see he has talent but trying to rebuild his career in the intensity of the PL just isn’t going to happen from what we’ve all seen of him so far. Sorry as someone who follows Roma this is patently not true. I think it is possibly true that some thought that he'd not re-captured his pre-injury form. However, he had put in some excellent performances in the build up to the summer and let's not forget he scored a hat-trick in the quarter final and the winning goal of the final in the Conference League. The issue was that he and Mourinho fell out over negotiations around his new contract (there may have been a prelude to this with Zaniolo possibly being frustrated that he was being asked to play a different way and Jose wanting to impose his style on the way that everyone played). Jose had just delivered a European title to Roma and looked like he might be bringing more success to the club. So when Mourinho turned on Zaniolo - he had a higher standing among fans than the player. Mourinho (like most bullies) was also quite good at building support for himself and against Zaniolo by picking up on specific incidents that supported his case that Zaniolo wasn't as good as he thought he was (by asking to be the highest paid player). Had Zaniolo not asked for a new contract or Mourinho had not taken his refusal to sign a lower offer than he's asked for as a personal slight - then I think it is highly likely that Zaniolo would have started the following season with a key role in Roma's team (rather than becoming more marginalised). The key point in the escalation of the whole saga was the rumour that Zaniolo wasn't putting in the same effort, was feigning injuries and that eventually he had refused to play or train for the club until his new contract had been agreed (I've heard various stories about whether this was actually the case, whether he'd been dropped / then told to stay away "to recover" from training by Mourinho {possibly one of his staff} or did genuinely havs a series of slight injuries). That's really what caused the issue with the Ultras - with some then turning up at his house to "make their feelings known". At which point things had broken down to the point that they couldn't be easily fixed. As an aside it is interesting to note that since De Rossi has taken over there's talk about Roma playing / training with more freedom and players looking "happier". So it is hard to say whether Zaniolo or Mourinho or both are more at fault here. Edited February 23 by allani 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 53 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Yes on a personal level, it must have been a hard few years with the bad injury and leaving your boyhood club (Jack take note). He does seem a bit lost when he plays. He didn't really have a boyhood club. He was at Genoa, Fiorentina and Inter before joining Roma. Indeed one of the "issues" flagged when he was first spoken about as being potentially Roma's next Totti was that he could never be the next Totti because he wasn't born "Roma". I don't know what team he supported as a kid - mainly it seems to be whichever Serie C team his dad was playing for at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, allani said: He didn't really have a boyhood club. He was at Genoa, Fiorentina and Inter before joining Roma. Indeed one of the "issues" flagged when he was first spoken about as being potentially Roma's next Totti was that he could never be the next Totti because he wasn't born "Roma". I don't know what team he supported as a kid - mainly it seems to be whichever Serie C team his dad was playing for at the time. Oh yeah my mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Oh yeah my mistake. No problem. I think it's definitely been a difficult time for him (which was your general point). The speed of his rise and fall was pretty phenomenal and would take their toll on anyone. I really do hope that he gets a move to another Serie A team where he can rebuild his career a bit more slowly and with less pressure. Fiorentina,Torino or Genoa might be good options from a footballing perspective and taking finances out of the equation. Would be amazing for him to go to my "local" team Lecce but that would seem completely unrealistic. I still think he'll end up at a CL team in Italy eventually - but might just benefit by taking that "backwards" step first to give himself the best chance of playing regularly and being one of the main players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I think people forget how young he is- he is still not even 25 yet. Time for him to do a Barkley for him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: I think people forget how young he is- he is still not even 25 yet. Time for him to do a Barkley for him yet. What’s a Barkley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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