VillaChris Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: Or a shame that he was overplayed because arsenal only really have him and odegaard meaning he started 56 games whereas man City had grealish, silva, foden and mahrez starting 30 games each... But yeah "bottled it" Was certainly tired, didn't quite have the same zip in his play one v one in the final weeks so probably having a couple of weeks off did him good. Missing that penalty at West Ham aswell impacted I think. He scores and Arsenal win that day and probably take title fight to final day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: Yep because like I said they overplayed their key players running them in to the ground and couldn't ride various injuries Rob Holding would do well to be our 4th choice CB and they had to play him in all those games, they lost saliba for too long and I'm sure Gabriel for a bit too The forest game they lost they had Thomas partey at RB, white at CB and a polish reserve CB playing LB At the same time man City with a fresher and fitter squad won 12 games in a row Yep, so they bottled it. If I'm beating Usain Bolt by 50 metres with 5 metres to go because he fell over at the start, and I run out of steam and let him beat me, then I've bottled it. It makes no difference that he's far better and faster than me, it's the situation you find yourself in. They well and truly bottled it. A mediocre run in and they would have won the league. Instead they capitulated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Mediocre run in wouldn't have been enough with Man. City winning 12-13 straight or whatever it was. Arsenal still beat likes of Newcastle in the last few games. Now Dortmund in the Bundesliga....that was a proper bottle job. Bayern messed up 2-3 times and Dortmund couldn't capitalise and get a decent points advantage and of course then completely froze on the final day when all they had to do was beat a mid table team at home who'd lost their previous four. If Arsenal had messed up the title in those circumstances then that would've been a proper bottlejob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, so they bottled it. If I'm beating Usain Bolt by 50 metres with 5 metres to go because he fell over at the start, and I run out of steam and let him beat me, then I've bottled it. It makes no difference that he's far better and faster than me, it's the situation you find yourself in. This is an interesting comparison. Surely "bottling it" is a matter of mental weakness and not having the strength to see something through due to doubts and a lack of belief/confidence impacting your performance. I guess the big question is whether Arsenal's collapse was mentality, or just fatigue as the fixtures took their toll on a limited squad. You're only bottling it against Usain Bolt if you're physically capable of beating him even given the headstart. Now this is bottling it Edited June 20, 2023 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Davkaus said: This is an interesting comparison. Surely "bottling it" is a matter of mental weakness and not having the strength to see something through due to doubts and a lack of belief/confidence impacting your performance. You're only bottling it against Usain Bolt if you're physically capable of beating him even given the headstart Now this is bottling it Even that isn't bottling it. It's being an idiot and thinking you've won then gloating. The guy in the clip didn't doubt himself, he just didn't know there was someone else catching up with him and started celebrating too early. As you said, bottling it is when you doubt yourself and stop performing at the level you were at If you physically run out of energy, or actually don't have the ability anymore due to some circumstance (having your first choice players injured), then it's not really bottliing it. You might argue Jacobellis in the boarder Cross doing a trick on the last jump and not landing it, then losing as a result is bottling it. Yes, she was celebrating early, but not in such a way that it would cost her the win if she had just landed the jump ahe did. She would make that jump 99 times out of 100 with her eyes closed, but when the pressure of winning was on, she didn't carry out the task to her normal ability. Maybe she got unlucky and hit the 1/100 times she messes up, but more likely the pressure made her tense up more than she should, and then she fell over. Edited June 20, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 52 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, so they bottled it. If I'm beating Usain Bolt by 50 metres with 5 metres to go because he fell over at the start, and I run out of steam and let him beat me, then I've bottled it. It makes no difference that he's far better and faster than me, it's the situation you find yourself in. They well and truly bottled it. A mediocre run in and they would have won the league. Instead they capitulated It wasn't 50m and 5m though was it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Only 7-0? Why use 2 DM's? England should have won 20-0 Southgate out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, villa4europe said: It wasn't 50m and 5m though was it It was in their hands, and even an average run in would have won them the league. They bottled it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: This is an interesting comparison. Surely "bottling it" is a matter of mental weakness and not having the strength to see something through due to doubts and a lack of belief/confidence impacting your performance. I guess the big question is whether Arsenal's collapse was mentality, or just fatigue as the fixtures took their toll on a limited squad. You're only bottling it against Usain Bolt if you're physically capable of beating him even given the headstart. Now this is bottling it Bottling it is being in a position to win and then not winning because of your own fault. Which is what Arsenal did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 50 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Bottling it is being in a position to win and then not winning because of your own fault. Which is what Arsenal did Including finding yourself in that position because you're performing better than you actually are and the opposition are performing worse than they actually are? Arsenal's performances at the start of the season put them in a false position, they couldn't sustain it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: Was certainly tired, didn't quite have the same zip in his play one v one in the final weeks so probably having a couple of weeks off did him good. Missing that penalty at West Ham aswell impacted I think. He scores and Arsenal win that day and probably take title fight to final day. Yes I think he's a terrific player who just got tired towards the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 For Arsenal (and anyone else) it’s practically impossible to use the same players week in week out and maintain world class performance levels. It’s a situation as old as the game of football. City have genuine world class players on the bench every week so they can sustain a level through the season. They can take KdB, Haaland and Gundogan off and put Mahrez, Alvarez and Foden on. Nobody can compete with that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Genie said: For Arsenal (and anyone else) it’s practically impossible to use the same players week in week out and maintain world class performance levels. It’s a situation as old as the game of football. City have genuine world class players on the bench every week so they can sustain a level through the season. They can take KdB, Haaland and Gundogan off and put Mahrez, Alvarez and Foden on. Nobody can compete with that. I wouldn't label Foden world class. Nor is Grealish. KDB, Haaland, Rodri yes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2023 25 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Including finding yourself in that position because you're performing better than you actually are and the opposition are performing worse than they actually are? Yes. 100% They put themselves in a position where they could have won it with average results. Then they got awful results. It's basically the definition of bottling it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just found out that England won 7-0 against North Macedonia. I made the point about qualifiers in another thread and this just reinforces it. Absolutely pointless for the vast majority of nations, for varying reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: Just found out that England won 7-0 against North Macedonia. I made the point about qualifiers in another thread and this just reinforces it. Absolutely pointless for the vast majority of nations, for varying reasons. North Macedonia qualified for the last Euros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Zatman said: North Macedonia qualified for the last Euros Yeah I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2023 12 hours ago, GlobalVillan said: Just found out that England won 7-0 against North Macedonia. I made the point about qualifiers in another thread and this just reinforces it. Absolutely pointless for the vast majority of nations, for varying reasons. It's qualifiers where England are at their most boring. We're actually just too good at qualifying for it to be exciting. I have more interest following Ireland in tournament qualifying because the excitement comes from it being an achievement to even qualify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Must admit I enjoy watching England; I've said it before. North Macedonia are no slouches but England are a different level. The second goal by Saka was brilliant and top class at any level, I doubt any keeper in the world would have saved it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 47 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I have more interest following Ireland in tournament qualifying because the excitement comes from it being an achievement to even qualify At this stage we be excited to win a corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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