Pre-Match Thread Cup Final 3 of 10

[Gompedyret]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

On the match itself, it's going to be a fascinating game.

Both teams score goals, but both also don't hand out many tonkings at all.  It feels like the midfield battle will be key and I do worry about how... what's that word... physical the Saudis are in the middle of the park.

 

Outside of the obvious ownership issues, it's quite refreshing having this fixture as a top 6 clash.

I have to agree here. This is a rather exciting match, and what's more exciting is the fact that it IS exciting! I'm excited that we get to be this excited about a match against a team as New bloody castle, because of the possibly exciting ramifications.

Money, or no money, we've both gotten our teams into good positions by doing a lot of stuff right, and even if Saudis preferrably stayed out of all kinds of football, for now I'd rather have Newcastle up here than any of the usual top 6 suspects. It is good and healthy to mix it up a bit.

We live in exciting times. UTV.

[Gompedyret]

1 hour ago, TomC said:

To be fair, online often brings out the worst people, and the worst in good people. That's not just true of Newcastle, or of football, or of sport. I'm sure that some of our supporters will grow obnoxious if we continue to succeed.

 

I'm ready to be obnoxious right now!

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

If we win this I'll truly start to believe

I'm with you on that. A win here is massive.

 

[IrishVilla10]

3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'll give it a go, although it's difficult because we've got players that are at similar levels in some positions and I think our own bias's will naturally kick in.

---------------------------------Martinez---------------------------------

Trippier--------Botman------------Mings-------------Moreno

-----------------------Luiz--------------Kamara------------------------

----------McGinn------------------------------Guimaraes-----------

-----------------------Isak-----------Watkins---------------------------

(I've stuck with our shape).

@TheFish what would yours be?

 

 

This would be my 11 as well, two left footed centre backs would be odd though but I’d have konsa over Schar too 

[jayEm]

The potential upsides of this game feel the biggest for Villa in a long, long time. Obviously it doesn't decide anything by itself, but it's the first time since May 2010 we've looked competitive for Europe, and we're playing one of our direct contenders for those spots (though they will likely finish in the CL), another team in the ascendancy, perhaps a year or so ahead of us if we're being optimistic. I'm not expecting much, but a convincing win here and we can really start to get excited.

[Villatillidie95]

This game really should be a 5:30 kick off, it has that feel that its going to be end to end beforehand, both teams are going to want it to prove to fans of other teams that they mean business. Its a coin toss and could go either way, you would have to say that they will be favourites however we are in a great run of form atm and both Bertie and watkins seem to be finding the back of the net regularly. As per usual we can't give them freekicks around our area as trippier is a big threat and will either put it in the top corner or give them a good chance of scoring from a header by big dan burn or joelinton. think we will need to move the ball around a bit quicker in this game and players will need to really concentrate for the full 90 to get something out of this

[Zhan_Zhuang]

14 hours ago, TheFish said:

I think Emery has bags of experience and a ton of honours, but Howe is still young and has shown all the things you want from a manager; tactical nous, man management, improves players, the right balance of emotion and control. Side by side you'd need only look at Emery's long list of successes to say he's a very very good coach, but Howe will have a long career ahead of him.

Just curious about your statement that VIlla have the better side. What would your combined 11 be?

Not really sure as I haven't really watched much of them...Villa had underachieved half the season, it would be fair to say yours had peaked...

From the little I have seen Bruno Guimarães and Trippier perhaps?

 

[Frodo]

           Martinez

Trippier. Boatman, Mings, Moreno

Dougie Kamara Bruno 

Watkins, Wilson, Isaac

My combined 11 for what it's worth, my only hard choice was leaving Shar out for Mings but suppose my claret & blue tinted glasses are on this morning as don't Newcastle have the best defensive record in the league & ive put 3 Villa players in out the 5

[TheFish]

19 hours ago, wedge said:

For the avoidance of doubt, and so that 'TheFish' can relay this back to his colleagues on the Newcastle forum he posts on, this is my two pennies worth:

 

What's always driven me nuts about Newcastle even pre-Saudi takeover is perhaps not the fault of any NUFC supporter or player themselves totally, it's more the sickening media fawning over them, implying that somehow 'it means more up there' - because the fans take their shirts off in the stands I presume -  (the definition of 'it' remains incredibly vague!) and to me since the takeover by the murdering Saudis (despite one of the reasons many of the Newcastle fans were against Mike Ashley was apparently because of the way he treated staff at Sports Direct for example yet were rushing to affix tea-towels to their heads and wave Saudi flags - ironically a huge insult not only to Saudi people but to Muslims in general especially considering the obligatory can of Newcastle Brown Ale or Carling planted firmly in the hands of said tea-towel wearing Geordie) the majority of Newcastle fans I see online (again I admit this probably not reflective of the entire fanbase) have become so arrogant and obnoxious despite the fact the club hasn't won anything since the 50s/60s! Don't portray to have wanted Ashley out because of the way his company supposedly treated some staff members then run to buy tea-towels when the Saudis buy the club from him, human rights concerns from the fans went right out of the window then! It just proves that because the club is likely to be more successful now that is all that seemingly matters and the fans will accept any regime or ownership and effectively sell out the club's principles (the Saudi-flag coloured away kit is nauseating and personally I'd rather Villa play non-league than have that incorporated into our away kit) as long as the men's senior team is winning football matches on the pitch.

I'm not sure it's because of the various stages of undress the fans find themselves in, but more Newcastle is a one club, one sport, city. It is ingrained in the very culture of the area. I've lived in the North East, Yorkshire, East Midlands, London, North West and the focus on football is definitely more pronounced North of the Wall. 

Newcastle fans didn't want Ashley out because of the way he treated the Sports Direct staff, that was just yet another shitty cherry on a very shitty cake. The handful (and it was a handful) of morons wearing teatowels should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves, I know that the overwhelming majority of those celebrating the takeover were happy that Ashley was gone, not that the Saudis were coming in. You maybe thought there were loads of fans in teatowels and waving flags, but that genuinely wasn't the case. A handful of daft lads drew the focus of cameras and there's your attention grabbing image for the news report. The Saudi coloured strip was, in my opinion, a PR misstep, but it was a step taken by Castore and the club, not the fans. I personally don't think any of our lot should buy it, but what can you do?

Like you say, online isn't a good reflection of the reality of the situation.

19 hours ago, wedge said:

 

The sickening and fawning media coverage surrounding Newcastle since the Saudi takeover has increased to unbearable levels, the reaction to the frankly limp League Cup final performance against Man United being a prime example of this, tweets from Sky Sports stating 'this is just the beginning' etc surely have never been seen before with regards to the League Cup runners up and for a club who hasn't won a major trophy since when, 1959? For a so-called 'massive' club as Sky Sports have told us for years and years (big crowds yes but it's a one-club large city!) this is absolutely embarrassing to have gone this long without winning a major trophy, so I've no idea how these entitled, obnoxious, arrogant Newcastle fans I see (mainly online it must be said) that act as if they're going for La Decima in Champions League trophies have the nerve to have this mindset!

I don't think it was a limp performance in the final, I thought we played all right, but had our 4th choice 'keeper in nets and had been missing our pivotal midfielder in the games running up tot he final. Your issue with Sky Sports tweeting out stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I have to admit. Sky Sports are just saying that, given Newcastle are now propped up by an oil state, they'll have access to the kind of funds that means Cup Final appearances will likely come more often than they have in the previous 20yrs. The way we've performed in the League supports that assertion. 

It is embarrassing for a club of our 'size' to have gone without any trophy of note for 50+ years, and I think that's kind of the point. Newcastle have competed for titles, played in the CL, played in Europe, spent a fortune, had some great/good players all in the last 25yrs, and won.... nowt. That's frankly mental. Plenty of 'smaller' clubs have won something then disappeared into the lower leagues! It's a litany of poor appointments, poor recruitment and so on. Yet throughout all that, the club have struggled on, only being out of the top flight for 2 seasons, still draw attention from the media, still get plenty of bums on seats. 

19 hours ago, wedge said:

 

I must state - please don't think I am tarring all Newcastle fans with this brush just as you cannot generalise any large group of human beings, Newcastle is a cracking city and I've loved visiting St James's Park every time I've been, it is a magnificent stadium right bang in the city centre and Geordies I've met at games or on nights out up there have been absolutely bang on - and I'm sure there are plenty of decent, measured fans of the club that I think if success does come under these owners then fair play they deserve it and in addition I'm sure there are many that have wrangled with their conscious regarding selling the club's soul to a murderous and corrupt regime, I just don't ever seem to come across any of these online!

As for on the pitch and to Saturday, the job Eddie Howe has done since taking over has been superb, a manager I've always admired and rated and I've no doubt he'll have a great career with NUFC, and I do really think they'll beat us on Saturday unfortunately!

Seems to me that the crux of this is that, Football fans that you meet online can be ***iing awful. If I were you, I'd base my opinions of a region on the people I've met in real life, and not the trolls and tosspots you have to put up with online.

[TheFish]

15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'll give it a go, although it's difficult because we've got players that are at similar levels in some positions and I think our own bias's will naturally kick in.

---------------------------------Martinez---------------------------------

Trippier--------Botman------------Mings-------------Moreno

-----------------------Luiz--------------Kamara------------------------

----------McGinn------------------------------Guimaraes-----------

-----------------------Isak-----------Watkins---------------------------

(I've stuck with our shape).

@TheFish what would yours be?

 

 

Pope

Trippier Schar Botman Moreno

Luiz Bruno Joelinton

Isak Wilson ASM

That might seem harsh or unbelievably biased, but that's honestly where I'm at.

Pope has more clean sheets, better save %, more sweeping actions etc. 

Schar has improved hugely under Howe. He's calm under pressure, good tenchnique, threat from set pieces, not just aerially, but he's got a good shot on him too, plus he has a wonderful range of passing. Every time I've seen Mings he looks like he's got a big mistake in him, like Lascelles does. 

Moreno beats our leftbacks because Targett hasn't been fit and Burn isn't a left back.

Coin toss between Kamara and Luiz, for me. They're both better than Longstaff/Willock, but neither are good enough to oust Bruno or Joelinton.

Front three speaks for itself. Watkins is in good form, but I'd have any of our lot over him. 

[Villa87]

I’d never take Wilson over Watkins. Big case for both Kamara rather than Joelinton and Martinez over Pope as well. 

[bobzy]

12 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Pope

Trippier Schar Botman Moreno

Luiz Bruno Joelinton

Isak Wilson ASM

That might seem harsh or unbelievably biased, but that's honestly where I'm at.

Pope has more clean sheets, better save %, more sweeping actions etc. 

Schar has improved hugely under Howe. He's calm under pressure, good tenchnique, threat from set pieces, not just aerially, but he's got a good shot on him too, plus he has a wonderful range of passing. Every time I've seen Mings he looks like he's got a big mistake in him, like Lascelles does. 

Moreno beats our leftbacks because Targett hasn't been fit and Burn isn't a left back.

Coin toss between Kamara and Luiz, for me. They're both better than Longstaff/Willock, but neither are good enough to oust Bruno or Joelinton.

Front three speaks for itself. Watkins is in good form, but I'd have any of our lot over him. 

Yeah, it is unbelievably biased  

Having Wilson over Watkins is genuine head gone stuff - although I appreciate its hard to rate others over your own when it’s going well.

Also, always weird doing a “best 11 of both teams” when we play different formations and different styles. Having ASM in there makes sense for Newcastle, but wouldn’t for us because he doesn’t pass the ball quickly enough. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by bobzy

[turvontour]

It's a tough one but I'm going to go with Tom Hanks and Prince William over Ant and Dec.

Pair of Geordie wasters.

Edited April 13, 2023 by turvontour

[TheFish]

4 minutes ago, Villa87 said:

I’d never take Wilson over Watkins. Big case for both Kamara rather than Joelinton and Martinez over Pope as well. 

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Yeah, it is unbelievably biased  

Having Wilson over Watkins is genuine head gone stuff - although I appreciate its hard to rate others over you’re own when it’s going well.

Also, always weird doing a “best 11 of both teams” when we play different formations and different styles. Having ASM in there makes sense for Newcastle, but wouldn’t for us because he doesn’t pass the ball quickly enough. 

Player Comparison: Callum Wilson vs. Ollie Watkins | FBref.com

Wilson is pound for pound, the better player. Scores more per 90, takes more shots and gets more shots on target per 90. Creates more for others too. 

Like I say, it's a coin flip between Luiz and Kamara ahead of Longstaff and Willock, but Joelinton and Bruno are must starts. Bruno needs no explanation. But I've watched big Joe go from a joke, a £40m flop, a punchline of a striker,  to being one of the most physically dominant, dynamic central midfielders I've seen in a black and white shirt. He's genuinely a monster in midfield and his footballing brain is way, way better than it once was. He's starting to add goals to his game too which is not something I ever thought would happen. I love him and his big goofy smile. 

Can't argue with ASM taking his man on two or three times instead of just the once, but you can't argue with the end product, in terms of creativity he's up there with the very best in the league. And play him alongside a career 1 in 2 striker like Wilson... that's just golden goose stuff.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Didn't realise Sunderland had won more League titles, that has surely got to hurt!

[ferguson1]

36 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Pope

Trippier Schar Botman Moreno

Luiz Bruno Joelinton

Isak Wilson ASM

That might seem harsh or unbelievably biased, but that's honestly where I'm at.

Pope has more clean sheets, better save %, more sweeping actions etc. 

Schar has improved hugely under Howe. He's calm under pressure, good tenchnique, threat from set pieces, not just aerially, but he's got a good shot on him too, plus he has a wonderful range of passing. Every time I've seen Mings he looks like he's got a big mistake in him, like Lascelles does. 

Moreno beats our leftbacks because Targett hasn't been fit and Burn isn't a left back.

Coin toss between Kamara and Luiz, for me. They're both better than Longstaff/Willock, but neither are good enough to oust Bruno or Joelinton.

Front three speaks for itself. Watkins is in good form, but I'd have any of our lot over him. 

No Almiron? He’s impressed me this season especially.

Where do you see the game being won or lost on Saturday? Is winning the midfield battle key do you think? 

I do think Emery will have a plan, which may not be the most entertaining but certainly a plan to nullify you guys. 

[SecretVillaScout]

15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Is this the biggest Premier League game between two non-super 6 sides since Leicester won the title?

In terms of fanbases and current form/league positions it must be. 

[TheFish]

Just now, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Didn't realise Sunderland had won more League titles, that has surely got to hurt!

Not in the slightest, just like them proudly bragging that it's been over a decade since we last beat them. Aye, there's a reason for that 'marra', we've not met you in the league for 8 seasons  

Our fans don't poo on their seats, or in London fountains, we didn't need a public vote to source a nickname for the team, we didn't pinch the name of our stadium from Benfica. We're bigger, better, and much much sexier  .

I dunno which of the West Midland clubs are your sunderland equivalent. They're the ones who'd think their season a success regardless of where they end up, as long as they beat you. They'll be the ones who're saying that Emery is a fraud, that your best players will leave in the summer, that you're one bad season away from financial rack and ruin... despite the opposite being patently obvious. They're the oddest of the odd.

[TheFish]

3 minutes ago, ferguson1 said:

No Almiron? He’s impressed me this season especially.

Where do you see the game being won or lost on Saturday? Is winning the midfield battle key do you think? 

I do think Emery will have a plan, which may not be the most entertaining but certainly a plan to nullify you guys. 

Love the lad, but he's not as good as the others. Between you and me? He's a weird looking bugger as well. Looks like the kind of kid who never had a bed time, the kind that knew how to roll a cigarette before anyone else did. 

Midfield is definitely a key position, two combative physical midfields trying to impose themselves on the other. Wouldn't rule out a red card as the fouls begin to stack up. Is Kamara fit for the game? 

I also think your back line will have a decision to make. Do they try to play through our high press, or do they try and go long? Play through and you could take advantage of overloads in the centre, or be found out like Man Utd and West Ham were. Go long and you could catch us out at the back, or our giants at the back could gobble up those high balls and all you're managing to do is invite pressure.

 

[ferguson1]

4 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Love the lad, but he's not as good as the others. Between you and me? He's a weird looking bugger as well. Looks like the kind of kid who never had a bed time, the kind that knew how to roll a cigarette before anyone else did. 

Midfield is definitely a key position, two combative physical midfields trying to impose themselves on the other. Wouldn't rule out a red card as the fouls begin to stack up. Is Kamara fit for the game? 

I also think your back line will have a decision to make. Do they try to play through our high press, or do they try and go long? Play through and you could take advantage of overloads in the centre, or be found out like Man Utd and West Ham were. Go long and you could catch us out at the back, or our giants at the back could gobble up those high balls and all you're managing to do is invite pressure.

 

Haha, yeah he is a weird looking sort.

Still no official news on Kamara yet. I think we may bring in Dendoncker for this depending on Kamara.

Can’t see us playing the long ball, it’s just not us now. We’ll try and keep it for long periods if possible and break when we can.