Project B6

[El Zen]

Just now, Talldarkandransome said:

I dont think Villa need drums, everytime I hear drums I think of crappy England at Wembley.

The ridiculous music at the start is bad enough, it all drowns out the atmosphere.

The f***ing England band has nothing to do with ultras culture, though

And, essentially, the bigger the stand, the more important is the drum to unify the chanting. Again, you shouldn’t really notice the drum, it’s only there to enhance the chanting. The Holte End is massive. Getting a good chant going there isn’t easy. A capo and a drum would help, trust me. 

Music from the tannoys is almosy invariably shit, I agree. 

 

[Talldarkandransome]

3 minutes ago, El Zen said:

The f***ing England band has nothing to do with ultras culture, though

And, essentially, the bigger the stand, the more important is the drum to unify the chanting. Again, you shouldn’t really notice the drum, it’s only there to enhance the chanting. The Holte End is massive. Getting a good chant going there isn’t easy. A capo and a drum would help, trust me. 

Music from the tannoys is almosy invariably shit, I agree. 

 

Do Villa have "ultras", my idea of what an ultra is appear on documentaries about hooligans. 

I agree with you about trying to create an atmosphere, safe standing would be a start and probably what Project B6 want to do.

Won't the club need to agree to anything like drums and banners and flags. I'm not young anymore but when I was I used to have a laugh on the terraces, seats ruined that. 

I hope whatever they come up with works though. 

[El Zen]

1 minute ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Do Villa have "ultras", my idea of what an ultra is appear on documentaries about hooligans. 

I agree with you about trying to create an atmosphere, safe standing would be a start and probably what Project B6 want to do.

Won't the club need to agree to anything like drums and banners and flags. I'm not young anymore but when I was I used to have a laugh on the terraces, seats ruined that. 

I hope whatever they come up with works though. 

We don’t currently have ultras, sadly. Ultras and hooligans aren’t the same thing, though I understand how people can get that idea. I consider myself an ultras fan, but I’ve never been in a fight in my life. 

I agree entirely, though. You want to have a laugh in the stands, that is exactly what I want. Seats competely ruin that. Safe standing is the single most important and effective thing you can do to improve the atmosphere. 

[Wainy316]

On 04/03/2023 at 11:34, El Zen said:

We don’t currently have ultras, sadly. Ultras and hooligans aren’t the same thing, though I understand how people can get that idea. I consider myself an ultras fan, but I’ve never been in a fight in my life. 

I agree entirely, though. You want to have a laugh in the stands, that is exactly what I want. Seats competely ruin that. Safe standing is the single most important and effective thing you can do to improve the atmosphere. 

To be fair the Holte is practically 100% stood these days.

Now it’s no longer technically ‘illegal’ to stand at football games the stewards no longer enforce it.

[El Zen]

37 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

To be fair the Holte is practically 100% stood these days.

Now it’s no longer technically ‘illegal’ to stand at football games the stewards no longer enforce it.

I had to sit for 90 mins last time, but yes, I agree. However, free standing and no numbered seats (just chuck out the seats for a section og the lower Holte) is so much better than just standing by your assigned seat. 

[The Fun Factory]

On 04/03/2023 at 11:20, El Zen said:

Music from the tannoys is almosy invariably shit, I agree. 

 

You mean the public address system. Tannoy is just the brand.

[El Zen]

11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

You mean the public address system. Tannoy is just the brand.

Eh, yeah. I’ll make note of that with a biro, I mean a generic ballpoint pen, on a post-it, I mean a generic sticky note, and google, I mean use a generic internet search engine, the correct generic term next time! 

I fancy a coke, I mean carbonated cola drink, now. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by El Zen

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

You mean the public address system. Tannoy is just the brand.

 

[sidcow]

Where do Project B6 sit? Is this the same mob who used to sit in the lower North a couple of years ago 

[wedge]

On 05/03/2023 at 15:43, sidcow said:

Where do Project B6 sit? Is this the same mob who used to sit in the lower North a couple of years ago 

There isn't a 'mob' as such I don't believe who all sit in the same section, I think you may be referring to Brigada 1874 who were a self-proclaimed 'ultras' group and did some good things but this is just Villa fans, they posted on social media yesterday to say that anyone can volunteer on matchdays to help out with displays and that there is no 'them' and 'everybody else'. PB6 are behind the Ugo Ehiogu, Martinez, Mings, Deano, Grealish etc flags and banners we have seen in both the Holte and North Stand recently. 

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, wedge said:

There isn't a 'mob' as such I don't believe who all sit in the same section, I think you may be referring to Brigada 1874 who were a self-proclaimed 'ultras' group and did some good things but this is just Villa fans, they posted on social media yesterday to say that anyone can volunteer on matchdays to help out with displays and that there is no 'them' and 'everybody else'. PB6 are behind the Ugo Ehiogu, Martinez, Mings, Deano, Grealish etc flags and banners we have seen in both the Holte and North Stand recently. 

What happened to Brigada 1874 then?  A bit odd to proclaim yourself as an ultra dedicated obsessed fan group then just disappear

[wedge]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

What happened to Brigada 1874 then?  A bit odd to proclaim yourself as an ultra dedicated obsessed fan group then just disappear

No idea mate, I remember a game at home against Man United early season (possibly the season we ended up going down) they got booted out (ridiculously) for persistent standing and that was the last I remember of them. 

 

This is based on absolutely no knowledge or fact whatsoever just complete rumour - but I think they had friction with the more established 'fan groups' (to put it mildly) such as the Villa Hardcore and the older predecessors such as the old C-Crew lot. 

 

They did some good displays and banners etc but I also feel that because they were very political in their displays and banners etc (not stating I agreed or disagreed with any political message they displayed just to be clear) they had a lot of Villa fans against them right from the start. Inevitably with any large cross-section of people such as the fanbase of a large football club you will immediately cause division with such an approach which is why Project B6 are gaining such traction as there is no political messaging or statements behind anything - it's just all about the Villa - which in my opinion is the way it should be.

[Risso]

On 02/03/2023 at 14:27, est1874 said:

The matchday atmosphere at Villa Park is as bad as I can remember it. Not having a pop at PB6 but whatever they've done to date has certainly not improved anything.

I don't know why our fanbase are so apathetic / negative particularly after paying the current prices to go and see the Villa. Maybe a certain sense of entitlement comes with that - "I paid 50 quid to watch this shit" or similar, but it's nonsensical all the same.

The recent videos doing the rounds of some younger supporters laughing at a kid bravely sticking his neck out to get some chants/songs started says it all. I wish I could say it was just our younger supporters, but some of the adults sat around me at games this season would frankly be better off staying at home, and tbh I wish they would.

If you're only going to VP to have a grumble, time to **** give it up. That's what VT (etc) is for.

The club probably aren't doing much to try to encourage interaction and support, to be fair, but at a certain point it's up to individuals - not the team, not the club hierarchy, not Project B6.

I think this is a load of nonsense to be honest. I've been at nearly every home game and half a dozen away games this season, and the Villa Park crowd is no better or worse than most to be honest. Firstly, all seater stadia don't naturally lend themselves to the atmosphere being electric for 90 minutes if what's going on on the pitch doesn't merit it. And let's be honest, while the three points against Palace were welcome, the match itself was only marginally better than the home win against Southampton. That's the main issue, we're getting points under Emery without playing particularly well, and at the end of the day supporters go there to hopefully be entertained. The best I can remember the atmosphere being at VP this season was when the team roused itself second half against Man City. We played great attacking football and were very unlucky not to win. My season ticket is in the Trinity and even in there everybody was standing up for almost the entire second half, shouting themselves hoarse.

The main issue is our form and results at Villa Park, even under Emery  just haven't been very good. Man U was excellent, but since then we've had:

Defeat to Liverpool

Boring draw with Wolves

Humiliating defeat to Stevenage

Fortunate win but mostly crap performance against Leeds

Battering by Leicester

Battering by Arsenal

Workmanlike, plodding win against Palace.

Add that to the shite under Gerrard, and the Villa Park faithful haven't exactly had an awful lot to shout about this season and after a while it grinds you down.

You can argue that if the crowd made more noise then maybe we'd play better, but a crowd is just 40,000 individuals and something needs to happen to get them off their feet. Even with the very best of intentions, Buendia misplacing another pass or Bailey failing to beat his man again isn't going to lead to a huge amount of passionate cheering. And it's not just us, it's every team. Liverpool fans were openly calling for Klopp to go a couple of weeks ago, then one 7-0 demolition of their hated rivals and everything is rosy again. I guarantee that their atmosphere was 100 times better in that game than it was when they were losing to Leeds. It's just human nature.

 

[est1874]

10 minutes ago, Risso said:

I think this is a load of nonsense to be honest. I've been at nearly every home game and half a dozen away games this season, and the Villa Park crowd is no better or worse than most to be honest. Firstly, all seater stadia don't naturally lend themselves to the atmosphere being electric for 90 minutes if what's going on on the pitch doesn't merit it. And let's be honest, while the three points against Palace were welcome, the match itself was only marginally better than the home win against Southampton. That's the main issue, we're getting points under Emery without playing particularly well, and at the end of the day supporters go there to hopefully be entertained. The best I can remember the atmosphere being at VP this season was when the team roused itself second half against Man City. We played great attacking football and were very unlucky not to win. My season ticket is in the Trinity and even in there everybody was standing up for almost the entire second half, shouting themselves hoarse.

The main issue is our form and results at Villa Park, even under Emery  just haven't been very good. Man U was excellent, but since then we've had:

Defeat to Liverpool

Boring draw with Wolves

Humiliating defeat to Stevenage

Fortunate win but mostly crap performance against Leeds

Battering by Leicester

Battering by Arsenal

Workmanlike, plodding win against Palace.

Add that to the shite under Gerrard, and the Villa Park faithful haven't exactly had an awful lot to shout about this season and after a while it grinds you down.

You can argue that if the crowd made more noise then maybe we'd play better, but a crowd is just 40,000 individuals and something needs to happen to get them off their feet. Even with the very best of intentions, Buendia misplacing another pass or Bailey failing to beat his man again isn't going to lead to a huge amount of passionate cheering. And it's not just us, it's every team. Liverpool fans were openly calling for Klopp to go a couple of weeks ago, then one 7-0 demolition of their hated rivals and everything is rosy again. I guarantee that their atmosphere was 100 times better in that game than it was when they were losing to Leeds. It's just human nature.

 

Find it hard to believe all this if your season ticket is in the Trinity. Genuinely one of the worst stands for atmosphere anywhere in the Premier League.

Take the tinted glasses off.

[Risso]

17 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Find it hard to believe all this if your season ticket is in the Trinity. Genuinely one of the worst stands for atmosphere anywhere in the Premier League.

Take the tinted glasses off.

I find it hard to believe you've ever been to an away match or watched any other football at all to be honest. I was in with the Man City fans at the Etihad and it made the Trinity look like the Maracana with the scores against Argentina 5-5 after extra time.

[est1874]

38 minutes ago, Risso said:

I find it hard to believe you've ever been to an away match or watched any other football at all to be honest. I was in with the Man City fans at the Etihad and it made the Trinity look like the Maracana with the scores against Argentina 5-5 after extra time.

Why don't you go watch Northampton Town and soak in some real atmosphere?

[wedge]

10 hours ago, Risso said:

I think this is a load of nonsense to be honest. I've been at nearly every home game and half a dozen away games this season, and the Villa Park crowd is no better or worse than most to be honest. Firstly, all seater stadia don't naturally lend themselves to the atmosphere being electric for 90 minutes if what's going on on the pitch doesn't merit it. And let's be honest, while the three points against Palace were welcome, the match itself was only marginally better than the home win against Southampton. That's the main issue, we're getting points under Emery without playing particularly well, and at the end of the day supporters go there to hopefully be entertained. The best I can remember the atmosphere being at VP this season was when the team roused itself second half against Man City. We played great attacking football and were very unlucky not to win. My season ticket is in the Trinity and even in there everybody was standing up for almost the entire second half, shouting themselves hoarse.

The main issue is our form and results at Villa Park, even under Emery  just haven't been very good. Man U was excellent, but since then we've had:

Defeat to Liverpool

Boring draw with Wolves

Humiliating defeat to Stevenage

Fortunate win but mostly crap performance against Leeds

Battering by Leicester

Battering by Arsenal

Workmanlike, plodding win against Palace.

Add that to the shite under Gerrard, and the Villa Park faithful haven't exactly had an awful lot to shout about this season and after a while it grinds you down.

You can argue that if the crowd made more noise then maybe we'd play better, but a crowd is just 40,000 individuals and something needs to happen to get them off their feet. Even with the very best of intentions, Buendia misplacing another pass or Bailey failing to beat his man again isn't going to lead to a huge amount of passionate cheering. And it's not just us, it's every team. Liverpool fans were openly calling for Klopp to go a couple of weeks ago, then one 7-0 demolition of their hated rivals and everything is rosy again. I guarantee that their atmosphere was 100 times better in that game than it was when they were losing to Leeds. It's just human nature.

 

I understand some of your points, but I'd like to explore this part of your post a tad more. We're all Villa fans, and when we go to Villa Park we go to support the team (I assume), do we only offer vocal support when things are going well then? I'd argue the team needs its supporters more when things aren't going well! It's easier to be loud and vocally supportive when things are going swell, but I do believe that a fervent crowd can spur a losing team on, I hear talk of how the Holte (when a gigantic standing terrace in the 70s and 80s) at times almost seemed to suck the ball into the net by itself when Villa were attacking it!

 

The usual counter-argument to this is that 'professional footballers on £XYX per week shouldn't need a loud stadium to perform' which I minorly understand but I think almost completely misses the point.

 

Maybe I'm a deluded idiot but at the end of the day whether we win the day's game 5-0 or lose it 5-0 I'm still going to wake up the following day a Villa fan, I'm not going to go and support PSG or Bayern Munich or Real Madrid so when I'm inside the stadium on a Villa matchday I'm going to burst my lungs in support of the Villa, maybe because there's a childish part of my DNA that realises it's the only bloody thing I can do to help. 

 

In addition, I know they're playing away tonight (but it would be the same at one of their home games) but Dortmund have just gone 2-1 down on aggregate from a leading position and still all that can be heard at Stamford Bridge is their fans, different geographical footballing fan culture I know to us in England but ion mainland Europe it's almost like what's happening on the pitch is irrelevant they're just going to sing and bounce and have fun in the stadium for 90 minutes regardless!

Edited March 7, 2023 by wedge

[icouldtelltheworld]

11 hours ago, sidcow said:

What happened to Brigada 1874 then?  A bit odd to proclaim yourself as an ultra dedicated obsessed fan group then just disappear

Several of them got banned from the ground under Lerner, and they faced a lot of violence and hostility from our hooligan element over their anti-racist stance

[tomsky_11]

On 07/03/2023 at 11:07, Risso said:

I've been at nearly every home game and half a dozen away games this season, and the Villa Park crowd is no better or worse than most to be honest.

Lower Holte here. I'm comparing to what VP is like previously, not other grounds in England, and I'd say it's noticably worse than pre lockdown. Especially given I can't remember the last time sat down during the game. Previously if the standing was constant then the atmosphere matched it, now it just feels pretty flat most of the time. And A LOT of moaning.

On 07/03/2023 at 11:07, Risso said:

Firstly, all seater stadia don't naturally lend themselves to the atmosphere being electric for 90 minutes if what's going on on the pitch doesn't merit it.

Agree all seated doesn't help. But it's not an excuse for not trying to improve things, especially given areas like the Holte are standing for 90 anyway and its appears from the otuside like some other clubs are doing more with the same.

And all seater is gone in a matter of seasons. So does the "what's on the pitch" excuse disappear at that point? Because without the kind of organising and extra effort that people are talking about in this thread, and changes to mentalities like this:

On 07/03/2023 at 11:07, Risso said:

a crowd is just 40,000 individuals and something needs to happen to get them off their feet

...I don't think things will change much. The atmosphere will still be highly reactive to what is deemed "good" or "exciting" or "attacking" on the pitch. I think the aim of what is being talked about here is to keep the atmosphere up at a certain level irrespective of whether the fans are sufficiently "entertained", which in turn might help the perfomance on the pitch itself.

This feels even more important given what we've seen so far under Emery because how he appears to want the team to play in certain moments in order to achieve more succesful results appears so far to be at odds with what the more vocal disgruntled fans want to see, judging by the constant panic and moaning when building from the back and shouts of "get rid!", "forward!" as if the players aren't doing what they are supposed to. Your summary of the games looks like the same kind of thing. A "battering" when we've lost injury time to a highly dubious goal against possibly this season's champions in probably one of the best games at VP this season. "Boring" when we've come through a tight tactical battle. "Plodding" when we've controlled a game well and ensured a win because of it.

And besides any impact on the players of this kind of thinking and resulting atmosphere, it's honestly so f'ing tedious for those of us who can see what we are trying to achieve under Emery, aren't going to s**t themselves every 5 mins because we haven't aimlessly lumped the ball forward, understand Emery's methods will take time to master, and for some crazy reason are happy with 22 points from 12 games (I know, mad right?!). To the point where, when I'm probably more excited about the future of this club on the pitch than I've ever been, I'm questioning maybe more than ever why I bother going to games.

[tomsky_11]

17 hours ago, wedge said:

different geographical footballing fan culture I know to us in England but ion mainland Europe it's almost like what's happening on the pitch is irrelevant they're just going to sing and bounce and have fun in the stadium for 90 minutes regardless!

I don't think it's that what's on the pitch is irrelevant. It's your previous point, that they can impact the team positively, that it's a collective thing and not...

On 07/03/2023 at 11:07, Risso said:

just 40,000 individuals and something needs to happen to get them off their feet

but this isn't IMO just a football culture thing, it's the mentality of a lot of this country. Hard thing to be up against. As evidenced by previous attempts to improve things. At all levels. And not just regarding football.