Woody1000 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 15 minutes ago, Zatman said: Would depend still on where in bottom half.if 11th probably be fine, 15th would be shocking 11th in itself would feel pretty underwhelming, but an 11th place like the other year with a high points total would be acceptable I suppose. Obviously a cup win would be fantastic, and would get us into Europe which is the goal. I agree, 15th would be shocking and I believe he would be gone next summer if that was the case, sooner if we were in any sort of relegation scrap imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) As much as I support SG, 15th would be unacceptable. Aim should be top 10 ( 7 - 10 ), with an absolute minimum of 12th ( I'd probably even see 11 - 12th as a cause for serious evaluation ). However it obviously depends on the season as a whole, performances in general etc. Edited July 19, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted July 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2022 Anything outside the top 10 is a failure and will probably be treated like one. DS was shown the door pretty quickly after dropping below expectations and he had credit in the bank. I would love us to win a cup, it would be utterly amazing, but if I wanted to support a crap team that wins a cup I'd be a Wigan fan. If we finish 11th or 12th with more points than last season and a cup, then thats a pass probably.... Our focus should be on being more competitive against the top teams and finishing top 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, nick76 said: I don’t believe that to be true. Under less ambitious owners I would maybe concede but under these owners fans are more ambitious so I don’t agree with your point and 15th wouldn’t be acceptable to most fans with a cup. They would be delighted with a cup but would want the manager out, Whilst I not a fan of Stevie G - If he achieves mid table and that is deemed not good enough - who do we get in to better that ?. Just replacing him with a similar calibre coach achieves nothing. Edited July 19, 2022 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 There's no way Gerrard would get the sack if he won us a Cup and finished fifteenth, it's easy to say he should get the sack if that were to happen now, but if it actually happened in reality then hardly anyone would be saying it or expecting it, just wouldn't happen, would frankly be our best season probably since the last time we won a trophy and the owners would love it dancing on the pitch at Wembley. What it would mean though is Gerrard, or whoever the manager is, being under pressure the following season, as while winning a cup would save them their job, they would have to improve on the league positioin the following season and show signs of that very early on. If we were to finish 15th without a trophy, then I don't think there's any doubt that he or any manager would get the sack. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, AshVilla said: Finishing outside the top 10 is unacceptable. Agreed, 10th is minimum this season. We finished 6 points off 10th last season, so with a pre-season and improved squad, SG has no excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, duke313 said: Agreed, 10th is minimum this season. We finished 6 points off 10th last season, so with a pre-season and improved squad, SG has no excuses. Don't forget though we added players and had a 3 week break in January - with little effect on results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, hippo said: Whilst I not a fan a Stevie G - If he achieves mid table and that is deemed not good enough - who do we get in to better that ?. Just replacing him with a similar calibre coach achieves nothing. If he gets 15th next season he’s gone and rightly so. As for who do we get in I’m sure there will be options then. His coaching calibre is the big question anyway? If he gets 15th he’s not doing what he’s brought into do so there will be higher calibre. If this teams is cohesive and clicks, there is no way they should be 15th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, useless said: There's no way Gerrard would get the sack if he won us a Cup and finished fifteenth Yes he would. It would mean us having probably a worse record in the league than this season and likely low 40 ish points, no way he survives that, whatever! We would be fighting relegation most of the season and only safe in the last few games. He’ll no, he survives that! Edited July 19, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: As much as I support SG, 15th would be unacceptable. Aim should be top 10 ( 7 - 10 ), with an absolute minimum of 12th ( I'd probably even see 11 - 12th as a cause for serious evaluation ). However it obviously depends on the season as a whole, performances in general etc. That’s pretty much where I’m at JV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 A team can easliy be in top half win the League Cup and then fall down the table. Finishing fifteen doesn't have to mean we will have spent all season in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, useless said: A team can easliy be in top half win the League Cup and then fall down the table. Finishing fifteen doesn't have to mean we will have spent all season in that position. As I said, that would only be the case if we lost almost all our games after it which would also be cause for sacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, useless said: A team can easliy be in top half win the League Cup and then fall down the table. Finishing fifteen doesn't have to mean we will have spent all season in that position. Generally unlikely though! Most likely being around that position most of the season. But even so if he won the league cup in Feb/mar and crashed the remainder of the season from top half down to 15th, it would have to mean 10 or more games team collapsing to fall so quickly he would then be fired for that poor run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: If you were a betting company you set your odds based purely on bets placed. They don’t have an army of football analysts or for that matter horse racing, cricket, golf, politics or anything else. The science is betting not opinions, no matter how valid through analysis they are. Not true, they need to price up the initial odds. From there they alter those odds based on the first bunch of bets, if they get plenty of bets on one of their priced up events they can change the odds lower and push other odds higher. Bookies often get these initial odds from the same company who have analysts to set the prices and they send to all the bookies. They do this so they're all about the same price and to save costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 If we finish 15th - Stevie G will only have had 1.75 seasons in the prem. It would seem like we appointed a rookie then gave him the boot just as was getting more experienced. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Dropping from say nineth or eighth to fifteenth from Feb to May wouldn't require us to lose all our games, a simple drop of form could cause that to happen, if we win a trophy there's no way he would get the sack, unless we were also relegated. Would also suggest that it's highly improbable that we would win the League Cup and then finish fifteenth anyway, we're good enough to finish higher as it is, and winning our first trophy and the confidence that that would bring would probably help the team to then do even better in the league. Also could have a season where we're hovering around midtable and then drop towards fifteenth towards the end, but also win the FA Cup, the scenario of finishing fifteenth and winning a trophy doesn't have to be the League Cup. Might as well forget about the rosy dream winning a trophy, if that happens all well and good, but for now I think top half is minimum aim, even a top half finish might not be enough, depends how we get there, if we do so by being bottom half most of the season but then scraping into top ten over last few games then I don't that that would be seen acceptable, we will want to be challenging in the top half throughout the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, hippo said: If we finish 15th - Stevie G will only have had 1.75 seasons in the prem. It would seem like we appointed a rookie then gave him the boot just as was getting more experienced. . It's a very tricky one, even some very good managers have relatively tough seasons ( Rodgers at Leicester for example ) Ultimately, it's down to progress and circumstance Vs Owners and fans expectations. After all, there are targets, and the longer we miss out on them, the more unlikely we are to ever achieve them. The likes of Newcastle will be way ahead of us. There have been examples of Managers who've had very poor seasons and then brilliant seasons the next, but you will at least start to see the positive signs. I remember when Moyes and West Ham bought a load of players and alot of them seemed like big money flops, then they went on to fly the following season. Moyes is obviously a very experienced operator though. Thing is, we haven't had our " good " season yet under SG, so would he be afforded a poor season? That's not why he was brought in , or the investments made. Edited July 19, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, useless said: Dropping from say nineth or eighth to fifteenth from Feb to May wouldn't require us to lose all our games, a simple drop of form could cause that to happen, if we win a trophy there's no way he would get the sack, unless we were also relegated. Would also suggest that it's highly improbable that we would win the League Cup and then finish fifteenth anyway, we're good enough to finish higher as it is, and winning our first trophy and the confidence that that would bring would probably help the team to then do even better in the league. Also could have a season where we're hovering around midtable and then drop towards fifteenth towards the end, but also win the FA Cup, the scenario of finishing fifteenth and winning a trophy doesn't have to be the League Cup. Might as well forget about the rosy dream winning a trophy, if that happens all well and good, but for now I think top half is minimum aim, even a top half finish might not be enough, depends how we get there, if we do so by being bottom half most of the season but then scraping into top ten over last few games then I don't that that would be seen acceptable, we will want to be challenging in the top half throughout the season. Thanks for explaining to me that two cups exist but using a funky font and colour won’t make it any more true that there’s a chance we manage to win a trophy and finish 15th with Gerrard still being manager the following summer. Edited July 19, 2022 by a m ole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 41 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Not true, they need to price up the initial odds. From there they alter those odds based on the first bunch of bets, if they get plenty of bets on one of their priced up events they can change the odds lower and push other odds higher. Bookies often get these initial odds from the same company who have analysts to set the prices and they send to all the bookies. They do this so they're all about the same price and to save costs Yes they need a starting point and will look at basic form in big markets like horse racing but after a fairly cautious start I’d imagine they revert to their standard method of following the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 hours ago, It's Your Round said: It all depends on how fast, or indeed whether, we click. We’ve all seen what this team can produce when it’s on form, we’ve been devastating at times, but not consistently enough. It’s a big if, but if the new signings click and provide the platform that sorts our midfield and gives the attackers licence to attack. We have a lot of potential and football is a game of fine lines (and corruption), we could finish 6th or 7th, but we could easily finish 12th. Which would be massively disappointing and would put extreme pressure on the manager’s job. We should be getting 10 points on the board by end of August imo, that would settle things down big time. Bournemouth away- I get people are scarred by Watford on opening day last season but our pre season prep was a joke compared to what we're doing now so I expect us to be ready and beat likely 20th prem team by a couple of goals. Everton home- We've matched up very well against them since coming back up and Everton have look of team who'll have 4-5 signings in on August 31st. Palace away- Tricky but we won there last season and not sure they'll have a Gallagher replacement in. Also having disrupted pre season as looks like half their squad didn't want to get vaccinated..... West Ham- Nightmare match up for us in recent times but we'll be playing them after european fixture and their record was mediocre for Sunday games last year (although of course they beat us in one of them...) This would be real statement of intent game to win. Given September has us playing Arsenal, Man. City and Leicester we can't afford a mediocre start. Hopefully Diego and Kamara can look good in actual league games as they have done in the early friendlies but Digne and Coutinho have been with us since Jan so no excuse for them, Digne was playing really well end of last season aswell once the injuries cleared up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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