Boubacar Kamara

[nick76]

8 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

I'm going to clarify my position on this as my earlier opinion on it (just my opinion btw) has seemingly really upset a few posters. 

He's very good. I don't think he's world class. I'd sell him IF we got a high offer. 50 mill i said i'd accept but when you see the fees players are going for now i'd up it.

For me, world class means you barely ever make mistakes, or put your team in trouble.

I defy anyone to realistically tell me he hasn't given away/been dispossessed on the edge of his own box on multiple occasions. He also misplaces too many passes to be considered world class.

Douglas Luiz on the other hand, I feel is the better player - how often do you see him doing slmething suicidal?

BK is very good at winning the ball and moving it quickly.

I also think some of you could just disagree with the opinion rather than have a hissy fit about it.

I disagree, BK has only had one season here and is only 23.  He’s a top quality player that is young and was adjusting to this league and imo will be a top class player.  Yes he’s made mistakes but first season and all that, new better league, new language, team mates and two different managers. I would just laugh if somebody offered 50m for him or even close.  

Dougie is one of my favourite players but had quite a few seasons both with Villa and to adjust to the level of the PL and we are starting, over he last season, to see his true talents.  I really think BK and DL partnership could be top notch over the coming seasons and wouldn’t consider selling either of them.

BK has shown enough for me to consider him going to be an elite player and we see how long other players take to settle into this league or change teams.  Look at how out of place Jack looked in his first season at City, then second season he was awesome and the Jack we know.  I think BK will just get better and better.

[est1874]

50 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

But here's where that's a false economy, as the replacement player also has a price, is likely to occupy the bulk of the transfer fee and requires a certain element of luck in order to improve the team. Chances are we'll go backwards in overall quality.

Hence why we're moving more to a model where academy players that are good, but not good enough (yet) for where we wish to be, are the ones that have a 'price'. They're far more profitable to the club than selling a star for £100m, and replacing him with two lesser players but with a higher combined wage. 

That's how poorly run clubs operate, yes.

The likes of Brighton manage to sell their best players every season and still purchase well and improve overall, because their network is excellent. They are considerably better than us despite being smaller, so actually there are clubs who can say Thank You Very Much for huge money and reinvest it very wisely.

We're just not traditionally one of them. But what's the point in having Monchi the Messiah at the helm as director if we can't unearth a few gems? Might as well be Delphinho123 buying players if we don't trust the process.

Edited August 17, 2023 by est1874

[Lerner's Driver]

When Boubs is good, he's often very good indeed, when he's not, he can look a bit slow and awkward, getting caught in possession, etc.

Like a lot of our players, he's at his best when the opposition fears his/our ability, sits off, doesn't aggressively press and allows him/us to play.

I would say he fits into the profile of most of our players, i.e. pretty good on the ball, has an eye for a pass and is in possession of a medium build physically.

Collectively, as a unit, I think we are now a very good team, but also quite small and unfortunately, a little bit weak.

We are yet to see the true impact of us losing Mings and Buendia, but they were two of the more aggressive players, so to help us compete, it would be good to have some more nasty, big and skilful players in the squad.

Newcastle are a prime example of our worst kind of opponent, they have zero respect for our ability, instead they are going to impose themselves on us and they can do it because they have found a good balance of big brutality and skilful incision.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Lerner's Driver

[Tom13]

5 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

When Boubs is good, he's often very good indeed, when he's not, he can look a bit slow and awkward, getting caught in possession, etc.

Like a lot of our players, he's at his best when the opposition fears his/our ability, sits off, doesn't aggressively press and allows him/us to play.

I would say he fits into the profile of most of our players, i.e. pretty good on the ball, has an eye for a pass and is in possession of a medium build physically.

Collectively, as a unit, I think we are now a very good team, but also quite small and unfortunately, a little bit weak.

We are yet to see the true impact of us losing Mings and Buendia, but they were two of the more aggressive players, so to help us compete, it would be good to have some more nasty, big and skilful players in the squad.

Newcastle are a prime example of our worst kind of opponent, they have zero respect for our ability, instead they are going to impose themselves on us and they can do it because they have found a good balance of big brutality and skilful incision.

I've never seen him look awkward on the ball since he's been here.

[StanBalaban]

26 minutes ago, est1874 said:

That's how poorly run clubs operate, yes.

The likes of Brighton manage to sell their best players every season and still purchase well and improve overall, because their network is excellent. They are considerably better than us despite being smaller, so actually there are clubs who can say Thank You Very Much for huge money and reinvest it very wisely.

We're just not traditionally one of them. But what's the point in having Monchi the Messiah at the helm as director if we can't unearth a few gems? Might as well be Delphinho123 buying players if we don't trust the process.

Brighton are very much the outlier here and, up until last season, have never had the huge weight of expectation on their shoulders. If they can do well in Europe, or finish higher up the table again, their buying process might change.

Given their resources, I'm sure Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea could put together a recruitment team to continually unearth gems for a few million quid - but they can't afford the risk, nor would the fans accept buying anything other than proven players. That's why they continue to let other clubs be the guinea pig. If Brighton **** it up and finish 12th, there's no backlash from the fans. The manager isn't losing his job.

As I said, if Brighton continue their trajectory, they won't want to go back to mid-lower table, and I expect the risk to be dialed-down in their future, core signings. They'll be sat on a shit load of cash too.

 Our fans can be a quirky bunch. We're a big club for sure, but haven't acted or performed like one in a very long time. We've brought in a relatively unknown South American, and we hope he does well, but we're now looking for players to immediately improve the team. We're almost too big to gamble like Brighton yet, at the same time, have been woefully unsuccessful in recent years.

Brighton had Danny Welbeck playing a key role in their season, and started the first game of this. Do you think our fans would accept Emery bringing him in as a backup to Ollie? I don't think so, and I'm sure that influences managers, boards, DoF's, etc... 

Our version of Brighton's income strategy is our academy. It's much better than theirs (in fact most in the PL) and that's where the revenue stream will be. Those that prove to be good enough, we'll keep control of their future. Most won't be however, but will generate millions in profit when sold. The difference is we're not dismantling our squad by doing so.

[Lerner's Driver]

Just now, Tom13 said:

I've never seen him look awkward on the ball since he's been here.

You have, when he's lost the ball/got caught in possession. Fully agree that doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

There wouldn't be this discussion happening right now, if his form hadn't dipped a bit just recently, but it has.

As I said, a very good player, but not without his faults, or weaknesses. They all have them and show them to some greater or lesser extent.

[Rolta]

12 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

You have, when he's lost the ball/got caught in possession. Fully agree that doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

There wouldn't be this discussion happening right now, if his form hadn't dipped a bit just recently, but it has.

As I said, a very good player, but not without his faults, or weaknesses. They all have them and show them to some greater or lesser extent.

Hold up—do you mean in the one single game we've had all season?

I say that because there was nothing wrong with him at the end of last season. He's always had a game here or there where he's looked a bit off the pace, a bit too relaxed maybe. He has that in him, but happily it's just once in a while.

[sheepyvillian]

9 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

*in your opinion. 

Why are you so defensive?

Hence, the emojis. Nothing defensive about that at all.

Edited August 17, 2023 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

If we're not careful, kamara will be this season's McGinn. It won't be long before the 50 million is down to five million. Every season one player gets singled out for unjustified  criticism. The same way all players have thier faults and weaknesses, the same way players go through a loss of form, as was seen very clearly with McGinn. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by sheepyvillian

[Lerner's Driver]

4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

If we're not careful, kamara will be this season's McGinn. It won't be long before the 50 million is down to five million. Every season one player gets singled out for unjustified  criticism. The same way all players have thier faults and weaknesses, the same way players go through a loss of form, as was seen very clearly with McGinn. 

This is an interesting statement.You are clear that criticism of Kamara is unjustified, which seems strange to me.

He can be both very good and experience a dip in form, which would surely make him deserving of criticism, no?

Are you suggesting we exempt players from critical analysis because they are mostly good? 

Similarly, John McGinn is a strange example to support your argument. He struggles in some positions/systems and thrives in others.

It is hugely to his credit that he is willing to play wherever the manager wants him to, even if that diminishes him being able to show his abilities, but nonetheless, he does sometimes struggle and so is deserving of criticism. He isn't perfect.

I think all fans lose their objectivity where it comes to their favourite players. It is possible for a player to be mostly very good and deserving of criticism, the two are not mutually exclusive.

For the record (lol), noone is saying Boubs or McGinn are not very good players, they both are, but they do both have/are capable of having poor games/dips in form and it is absolutely fine to acknowledge that.

There's no bandwagon, no conspiracy, no scapegoating, people are just expressing their opinion based on what they see.

[Lerner's Driver]

29 minutes ago, Rolta said:

Hold up—do you mean in the one single game we've had all season?

I say that because there was nothing wrong with him at the end of last season. He's always had a game here or there where he's looked a bit off the pace, a bit too relaxed maybe. He has that in him, but happily it's just once in a while.

Yes, primarily the Newcastle game, though I seem to recall some of the 'bit too relaxed' thing in pre-season as well.

It's probably a feature of his excellence that when he's off his game, it's more noticeable, but that doesn't mean we can't notice or comment on it.

[lexicon]

I honestly think that some of you would start 5 promising 13 year-olds and 6 sacks of money sometimes. Jesus. 

[bobzy]

15 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

This is an interesting statement.You are clear that criticism of Kamara is unjustified, which seems strange to me.

He can be both very good and experience a dip in form, which would surely make him deserving of criticism, no?

Are you suggesting we exempt players from critical analysis because they are mostly good? 

It’s been 1 game. 

[est1874]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It’s been 1 game. 

There's virtually no relation between this comment and the one you responded to. 

Lerner's Driver makes valid and balanced points. Yours is the written equivalent of flailing.

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, est1874 said:

There's virtually no relation between this comment and the one you responded to. 

Lerner's Driver makes valid and balanced points. Yours is the written equivalent of flailing.

“A dip in form”.

1 game. 

[est1874]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

“A dip in form”.

1 game. 

Disingenuous.

He had poor games and moments last season also.

He's a good player. Not world class.

[thabucks]

11 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Disingenuous.

He had poor games and moments last season also.

He's a good player. Not world class.

So does every player… 

You're right he isn’t - Yet…

Every player in our squad has a price and if it’s met there will be a discussion to be had. 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, StanBalaban said:

Brighton are very much the outlier here and, up until last season, have never had the huge weight of expectation on their shoulders. If they can do well in Europe, or finish higher up the table again, their buying process might change.

Given their resources, I'm sure Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea could put together a recruitment team to continually unearth gems for a few million quid - but they can't afford the risk, nor would the fans accept buying anything other than proven players. That's why they continue to let other clubs be the guinea pig. If Brighton **** it up and finish 12th, there's no backlash from the fans. The manager isn't losing his job.

As I said, if Brighton continue their trajectory, they won't want to go back to mid-lower table, and I expect the risk to be dialed-down in their future, core signings. They'll be sat on a shit load of cash too.

 Our fans can be a quirky bunch. We're a big club for sure, but haven't acted or performed like one in a very long time. We've brought in a relatively unknown South American, and we hope he does well, but we're now looking for players to immediately improve the team. We're almost too big to gamble like Brighton yet, at the same time, have been woefully unsuccessful in recent years.

Brighton had Danny Welbeck playing a key role in their season, and started the first game of this. Do you think our fans would accept Emery bringing him in as a backup to Ollie? I don't think so, and I'm sure that influences managers, boards, DoF's, etc... 

Our version of Brighton's income strategy is our academy. It's much better than theirs (in fact most in the PL) and that's where the revenue stream will be. Those that prove to be good enough, we'll keep control of their future. Most won't be however, but will generate millions in profit when sold. The difference is we're not dismantling our squad by doing so.

Their business model has to change at some point because it's not conducive to success much beyond where they are now. 

Selling your best players and expecting to be as good the following year, or better, is ambitious at best, delusional at worst. The expectation that we can just sell Luiz or Kamara and then replace them with a player who cost a couple of mil, is downright laughable. This is not Football Manager.

If you ever want to make the CL, challenge for the title or other trophies, then you need to keep great players at the club, not sell them and disrupt the team. 

Brighton are a team that everyone will be taking seriously this year, teams now know what to expect from De Zerbi and they've had their core changed and weakened, as you say. It will be a lot harder for them. 

[Rolta]

51 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Yes, primarily the Newcastle game, though I seem to recall some of the 'bit too relaxed' thing in pre-season as well.

It's probably a feature of his excellence that when he's off his game, it's more noticeable, but that doesn't mean we can't notice or comment on it.

Maybe he wasn't so great against Newcastle (I don't remember him being standout bad at all), but that doesn't mean his form has dipped recently—that's what caught my eye. It was funny to see a comment like that after one game is all

(And he was fine in preseason, and of course preseason doesn't count anyway)

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rolta

[Vive_La_Villa]

If Liverpool want him they’d have to pay in excess of 60m.  They aren’t going to do that. 
 

So let’s move on.