Zatman Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Just now, Peter Griffin said: Where do u get that from? That is not what an option to buy is Yes it is. Its an option, we can turn him down also. Obligation to buy is when they have to join after the loan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 We won't see the contract but we do know that Coutinho has signed a contract with Villa and that contract has a clause in it that allows Villa the option to buy Coutinho for 33m. We can interpret that all we like but in football that normally means that the buying club has the right to exercise the clause if they see fit to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: Then please explain what is an option to buy? Because you seem to believe its not an option at. It's not called an option to bid or an option to negotiate or an option to speak with the player, its an option to buy which all parties to the contract sign up to at it's inception with their eyes open. This is my fundamental understanding, articulated better than I could've done! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 41 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i guess we'll see in the summer. i just don't see the point in a clause if another club can buy him. theoretically every loan therefore has an 'option to buy' if any old club can just swoop in Exactly. If there was any way that any party could pull out it simply wouldn't be an option to buy clause, it would be something else. So we exercise our option and Liverpool make Coutinho an offer he accepts, we clearly haven't bought him. It would be a complete nonsense to have such a clause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: Yes it is. Its an option, we can turn him down also. Obligation to buy is when they have to join after the loan I understand the difference between option and obligation. With Coutinho we have the option. If someone gets a new car on PCP they have the option to a) return the car after 3 years and walk away or b) pay the balance outstanding and keep the car. The car dealer that sold the car has no ability to force the buyer to take a particular option. It is 100% the buyers choice. Edited February 5, 2022 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: Yes it is. Its an option, we can turn him down also. Obligation to buy is when they have to join after the loan I agree, and that is why Aston Villa is attributed with the option and not Barca or Coutinho. They do not have the option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Semantics antics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) Someone highlighted one single case from years back where a Southampton player didn't complete the signing because of a loophole where the loaning club paid back the loan fee, cancelling the option to buy and the player returned. But as he said you can bet the buying clubs have tightened up the contracts since then. And still no one seems to have come up a single example where the player has turned round and not accepted the deal. No one. Edited February 5, 2022 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 In all reality though, we’re not going to sign force through a purchase of a player if he says that he doesn’t want to be here. It would be a recipe for disaster. We have the option to buy which I interpret the same as most, if we want to buy him and he’s happy to stay, he’s ours. If he has a successful loan with us and his family are settled, I think he’d be delighted to stay. Let’s not worry, it’s still very early days. If we’re going to drop 30 mill on him we need to see consistency of performance and that he is not prone to injury niggles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: In all reality though, we’re not going to sign force through a purchase of a player if he says that he doesn’t want to be here. It would be a recipe for disaster. We have the option to buy which I interpret the same as most, if we want to buy him and he’s happy to stay, he’s ours. If he has a successful loan with us and his family are settled, I think he’d be delighted to stay. Let’s not worry, it’s still very early days. If we’re going to drop 30 mill on him we need to see consistency of performance and that he is not prone to injury niggles. Yeah I'm happy to just enjoy the time he's here, whether that is 6 months or 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 Just now, sidcow said: Someone highlighted one single case from years back where a Southampton player didn't complete the signing because of a loophole where the loaning club paid back the loan fee, cancelling the option to buy and the player returned. But as he said yiu can bet the buying clubs have tightened up the contracts since then. And still no one seems to have come up a single example where the player has turned round and not accepted the deal. No one. Because what would typically happen is a loan player does well, the player enjoys their time there, the buying club takes up the option. You aren’t going to have many examples of an option to buy where the player has a rotten time of it and the buying club says “Yep, we fancy some more of that!”. Generally a player will ultimately sign on a permanent contract if a loan has gone well. It’s not a perfect example as it was more complicated because he was out of contract at Man Utd, but Villa had an option to buy Tom Cleverley. The way Sherwood bemoaned his loss, it seems like we wanted to keep him. However our option to buy didn’t stop him buggering off to Everton though. I highly doubt Coutinho has an obligation to sign a permanent contract with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 So how does the reported purchase option that Spurs have on Coutinho work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: In all reality though, we’re not going to sign force through a purchase of a player if he says that he doesn’t want to be here. It would be a recipe for disaster. We have the option to buy which I interpret the same as most, if we want to buy him and he’s happy to stay, he’s ours. If he has a successful loan with us and his family are settled, I think he’d be delighted to stay. Let’s not worry, it’s still very early days. If we’re going to drop 30 mill on him we need to see consistency of performance and that he is not prone to injury niggles. Yes, I would agree probably a lot of loan to buy clauses are not exercised where the player is clearly not happy. The buying club would have to be sensible, but that isn't to say they couldn't force him to stay if they wanted to, it would just be silly to. If the loan has been successful its unlikely he'll be unhappy though as the 2 things will generally go hand in hand. I would also think that if eg Newcastle were desperate for him and offering him £500k per week and he really wanted to go there, the probable outcome would be we exercise our right to buy then immediately sell him to Newcastle at a fat profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Because what would typically happen is a loan player does well, the player enjoys their time there, the buying club takes up the option. You aren’t going to have many examples of an option to buy where the player has a rotten time of it and the buying club says “Yep, we fancy some more of that!”. Generally a player will ultimately sign on a permanent contract if a loan has gone well. It’s not a perfect example as it was more complicated because he was out of contract at Man Utd, but Villa had an option to buy Tom Cleverley. The way Sherwood bemoaned his loss, it seems like we wanted to keep him. However our option to buy didn’t stop him buggering off to Everton though. I highly doubt Coutinho has an obligation to sign a permanent contract with us. I agree with all this.... Except your last line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: Someone highlighted one single case from years back where a Southampton player didn't complete the signing because of a loophole where the loaning club paid back the loan fee, cancelling the option to buy and the player returned. But as he said you can bet the buying clubs have tightened up the contracts since then. And still no one seems to have come up a single example where the player has turned round and not accepted the deal. No one. tbh, regardless of the ins and out of what is possible in these "buy option" deals, if a player had the opportunity to reject the buy option, but a club tried to buy them, i highly doubt the club would announce the failed buy option: ie: "Yes we had a buy option, we tried to activate it but the player said no we are rubbish so he doesnt want to come to us". It would be either: a) Player signs permanently due to activation of buy option, or b) player returns to parent club after loan expires. highly doubt you would see: c) We tried to sign him via the buy option, but we got rejected cus he said we are a pants team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, sne said: So how does the reported purchase option that Spurs have on Coutinho work? It doesn't because they haven't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 The discussion on the option to buy is quite funny. We don't know if it's pre agreed what his wages would be, what Barca's settlement to pay off the last year of Coutinho's contract is etc.. It could be the fee is what is agreed and that's it. We don't know so debating it back and forth really is pointless. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, MaVilla said: tbh, regardless of the ins and out of what is possible in these "buy option" deals, if a player had the opportunity to reject the buy option, but a club tried to buy them, i highly doubt the club would announce the failed buy option: ie: "Yes we had a buy option, we tried to activate it but the player said no we are rubbish so he doesnt want to come to us". It would be either: a) Player signs permanently due to activation of buy option, or b) player returns to parent club after loan expires. highly doubt you would see: c) We tried to sign him via the buy option, but we got rejected cus he said we are a pants team. You can bet your bottom dollar at least one disgruntled player would have mouthed off about turning down the permanent offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 We're not going to know the details of the agreement so anyone on here claiming definitively is talking rubbish. My interpretation is that we have agreed an option to buy him off Barcelona for a fixed price. Barcelona can no longer do anything about it if he decides to join us at the end of the season. However as always the player themselves has a say on whether they actually want to sign another contract with us. All signs so far indicate he is up for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 minute ago, sidcow said: You can bet your bottom dollar at least one disgruntled player would have mouthed off about turning down the permanent offer. ye maybe. Anyways, hopefully Coutinho does ace, we activate the 33m clause, and he helps elevate us to the next level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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