Steven Gerrard

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

How does this sound:

• Defeat to Fulham on Thursday
• Sacked on Friday
• Critchley in charge on Sunday
• New manager announced Monday/Tuesday

Or

Sacked today

New manager today

[duke313]

1 minute ago, Marka Ragnos said:

We don't want to lose to Fulham.And sacked NOW, please.

He's not going before Fulham; I think that's clear now.

Be interesting to see his press conference, when is it due?

Edited October 18, 2022 by duke313

[Marka Ragnos]

Jonny is fairly moderate when it comes to calling for changes at Villa, so this is worth noting:

 

[chappy]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

How does this sound:

• Defeat to Fulham on Thursday
• Sacked on Friday
• Critchley in charge on Sunday
• New manager announced Monday/Tuesday

[TRO]

22 hours ago, romavillan said:

With all due respect, if he was doing all the right things at BMH, we'd be seeing a well coached team, a cohesive unit, players that look like they know their roles and the roles of those around them inside out. If we saw that and the results were the same (they most likely would not be but still) then we'd be failing due to genuinely not having the quality in key areas, individual errors etc. 

Watching us play over the last year, there's been incredibly few spells of football where the players look like they know what they are doing inside out, they look ponderous and unsure of where the next pass should go. They look disjointed, they are hardly ever compact, there's never a couple of easy options for whoever's on the ball, the off the ball movement is poor, we look laboured doing what would be automatic to a well coached team. 

I think it's fairly obvious that not all the right things are happening at BMH. A football great, Viciani, a precursor of Bielsa, Pep and Klopp style football used to say, "Do what you are good at, do it well and do it quickly" his whole style in the era of catenaccio and long ball counter attacks was born as he said he had limited players so he made them play a style of short easy passes with good off the ball movement so that player on the ball always had an option. The same organisation was applied to pressing to get the ball back. 

Watching well coached teams with limited players lose, it's easy to see the work done on the training pitch. I really do not see it with us and haven't for a while now. Last coaching set up that had it for us was Smith, O'Kelly and Terry working together.

Have you conveniently forgotten some of the dark runs, during Deans reign......So where was the coaching then?

The 3 wins in 12 during jacks absence in 2021......the 9 wins in 38 during 2019/20 or the poor run leading up to the good one in 2018/2019.....Look, this is not about, rubbishing Dean Smith.....its about Perspective with SG.

I don't think SB's teams struck me as well coached, either, he just stopped the rot of conceding willy nilly.

but, I am questioning your view, that its all down to coaching......He has coaches to do that.....all managers do....its a big job,being manager,  not just coaching....if too many players lack varying attributes or too similar, that can affect any strategy, or coaching. Jobs don't get done, no matter how you permutate it.

I see what you see, I don't necessarily see a well coached team either......Haven't for a long time now, but I happen to think its more than just that...thats where we may differ, in opinion.

If a new manager comes in, and with the SAME personnel and turns it around, you have my full apology, and believe me, I desperately want you to be right and me wrong.

I thought on Sunday, periods in the game, showed good form, against top opposition, even the reasonable minded Chelsea fans, thought they was lucky to win.......individual errors in a game, where decision making was questionable, is hardly manager blame.

We have now played, Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea, and have been in the game, bar from errors or questionable decisions or poor marking......I accept the overall numbers, are not acceptable, and it can't continue....Thats what will, see him gone.

If Steven Gerrard gets the sack, so be it......but I will not be thinking, we are out of the woods, albeit, would like to think we will be.

 

 

 

 

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Have you conveniently forgotten some of the dark runs, during Deans reign......So where was the coaching then?

The 3 wins in 12 during jacks absence in 2021......the 9 wins in 38 during 2019/20 or the poor run leading up to the good one in 2018/2019.....Look, this is not about, rubbishing Dean Smith.....its about Perspective with SG.

I don't think SB's teams struck me as well coached, either, he just stopped the rot of conceding willy nilly.

but, I am questioning your view, that its all down to coaching......He has coaches to do that.....all managers do....its a big job,being manager,  not just coaching....if too many players lack varying attributes or too similar, that can affect any strategy, or coaching. Jobs don't get done, no matter how you permutate it.

I see what you see, I don't necessarily see a well coached team either......Haven't for a long time now, but I happen to think its more than just that...thats where we may differ, in opinion.

If a new manager comes in, and with the SAME personnel and turns it around, you have my full apology, and believe me, I desperately want you to be right and me wrong.

I thought on Sunday, periods in the game, showed good form, against top opposition, even the reasonable minded Chelsea fans, thought they was lucky to win.......individual errors in a game, where decision making was questionable, is hardly manager blame.

We have now played, Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea, and have been in the game, bar from errors or questionable decisions or poor marking......I accept the overall numbers, are not acceptable, and it can't continue....Thats what will, see him gone.

If Steven Gerrard gets the sack, so be it......but I will not be thinking, we are out of the woods, albeit, would like to think we will be.

I think we are passed if at this stage.  

We've crossed the Rubicon, there is no going back.

[romavillan]

No I haven't forgotten the bad spells at all. Difference being Smith in the post match took responsibility, identified pretty much what most fans had said was wrong with the performance, didn't throw the players under the bus and had a plan to turn things around. Something he did after each of those runs, quite often performances in those bad runs were good but we didn't get points. When we get points under Gerrard you can't really point to much decent football to think it'll be consistent.

He takes credit for a good 45 minutes against Chelsea, go the players bang up for it. Potter then made 2 changes and the whole thing fell on it's arse, he had no answer.

We have played pretty much all the worst teams in the league too, we've been shit and not got many points against them either. The only really good football we've player with Gerrard was with Beale as assistant, and the games at the start of his reign was before he implemented his 8's covering fullbacks and no-one in midfield plan.

The core of this squad, even before some good signings IMO in the Gerrard era could play good football. I just don't think Gerrard will ever get a tune out of them and sticking with him now will mean a relegation fight.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, AV82 said:

It's a lot less costly than changing the whole playing squad in the hope that Gerrard comes good. What a bizarre take.

I accept that.

so do we keep changing managers, because we can't get other things right, like recruitment?

is that the alternative?

 

[WakefieldVillan]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Now that is funny......"Hark at the pot calling the kettle ,black"

I must confess, I am beside myself, with the results.....I am just not as sure as some of where the whole blame lies.

I don't know any Villa Fan, having a good time of it, unless you have a sadistic nature and just want a young manager gone, for what 11 experienced (International) players are dishing up.....or a recruitment team, that struggle to find players with an effective nature.

I will support a new manager, with the same vigour as I support them all......but I, like any other fan, cannot preside over the number of losses and lost points, that we are accruing.

 

I like much of what you have posted on this topic in the last few pages @TRO - Clearly you are not happy, as none of us are with the current situation with results / performances ETC but you are giving a very reasonable account of how you see things and I personally agree with lots of things you have spoken about. I don't think it is as black and white as Gerrard is to blame for everything. I think the players have to take a lot of responsibility too. I think we have been incredibly unlucky to lose Carlos, Digne and Kamara all in a short space of time - Probably the last 3 of our squad I would have wanted to be injured.  We are essentially playing with last seasons squad which isn't ideal. Unfortunately results (& performances) though haven't been good enough so I accept that something needs to be done sooner rather than later - we need to get the good feeling back at the club. I'll also admit I am usually one of the last to turn on managers - even with Gerrard (who I hated as a player) I actually don't mind him and was hoping he would be a success. 

[TRO]

22 hours ago, DCJonah said:

You know its true. @TROwill be questioning why we're only 8th and yes we've got 60 pts but here's a long list of everything the manager does wrong each week. 

er where did you pluck that pearl from DC?

I will support him like, I have all our managers.....but if folk, make pie in the sky claims and OTT views just because they like him, I will feel obliged to offer some balance.

 

[rjw63]

17 minutes ago, chappy said:

[AV82]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept that.

so do we keep changing managers, because we can't get other things right, like recruitment?

is that the alternative?

 

Us having failed in the transfer department is up for debate. Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho, Digne, Kamara, Carlos. These are all fantastic players and are undeniably better than the likes of Trezeguet, El Ghazi and Nakamba to name a few. Let's see what they can do under a manager with actual experience and pedigree. Unlike many of our players Gerrard has shown absolutely nothing and therefore must be replaced before we rip out a playing squad worth over 100m.

Edited October 18, 2022 by AV82

[El-Reacho]

23 minutes ago, duke313 said:

How does this sound:

• Defeat to Fulham on Thursday
• Sacked on Friday
• Critchley in charge on Sunday
• New manager announced Monday/Tuesday

• Gerrard sacked today.
• Players play with unbridled passion and put 4 unanswered past Fulham on Thursday.
• Poch in the Director's box on Sunday doing running chest bumps with Nas and Wes when we put another 3 past Brentford.
• Unprecedented era of relentless domination and silverware underway on Monday morning. 

[AV82]

Another nail in the coffin of Gerrard consistently playing the same players over and over again is Anwar El Ghazi. By all accounts he's an absolute demon (as was Traore) in training and yet when it comes to match day it's a coin flip as to whether he even shows up. Even despite the fact that our training is likely a pointless exercise given how inept Gerrard is as a coach this only serves to reinforce the fact that Gerrard not trying different players in different shapes because he has his favourites in training as outright archaic. The guy is a **** clown and I get worked up just thinking about it.

Edited October 18, 2022 by AV82

[Folski]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept that.

so do we keep changing managers, because we can't get other things right, like recruitment?

is that the alternative?

 

Brentford must be delighted in that we take their manager, striker and one of their decent prospects for the bones of £45m.

They buy a better striker for £5m, get a better manager than we now have and are higher in the league than us all in what 3 years?

[AV82]

For what it's worth I appreciate @TRO having a different opinion. In considering what he has to say and in taking the time to respond to him it really helps solidify my opinion that Steven Gerrard is a complete and utter fraud.

[Marka Ragnos]

He has to get fired for a contract pay-off, right? That's normally how it works? Or, alternatively, his lawyers could approach the club management for a negotiated exit? I'm wondering what kinds of long-term issues Gerrard's lawyers might be thinking through at the moment, so that he leaves in a decent situation.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Marka Ragnos said:

He has to get fired for a contract pay-off, right? That's normally how it works? Or, alternatively, his lawyers could approach the club management for a negotiated exit? I'm wondering what kinds of long-term issues Gerrard's lawyers might be thinking through at the moment, so that he leaves in a decent situation.

Mutual Agreement will be the line that is thrown around

[Sam3773]

He’s in the footage from today’s training. Looks like it’s at least another 90 full minutes of pain. 

[Folski]

2 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

He has to get fired for a contract pay-off, right? That's normally how it works? Or, alternatively, his lawyers could approach the club management for a negotiated exit? I'm wondering what kinds of long-term issues Gerrard's lawyers might be thinking through at the moment, so that he leaves in a decent situation.

Mutual termination, usually they will pay off a good chunk (almost all) of the contract.