Zatman Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Nah because you’re boring me. If you honestly think journalists should terrorise a manager in a press conference before a big game which is the second of the season then you’re an idiot. Imo of course. In fairness Gerrards ineptness has made it a big game. and Yes journalists should actually ask the tough questions Gerrard has had an easy ride because of his name and his club history. If his name was Remi Garde who won the league and played for Arsenal they would be all over him or Unai Emery who got more points than Arteta has done at Arsenal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 Hindsight is great but Arsenal fans were technically right at the time. That was the worst Arsenal side anybody 35 and under have ever seen. They finished 8th the previous season, their worst finish since the early 90's. Three horrendous losses on the bounce, scoring none and conceding 9 I believe. If they got their wish and Arteta had been sacked, you couldn't really say it would be harsh on him. However, crucially, Arsenal and Arteta were/are in a unique position, quite different from ours which make comparisons kind of pointless. He was signed to oversee a long term rebuild/transition period. He and the higher ups made this abundantly clear. He was clearing out the old, high wage, unmotivated players and replacing them with younger more motivated players from the academy and elsewhere. Whether he was the second coming of Pep Guardiola, or the second coming of Tim Sherwood, this endeavour was always going to take time. Patience in Arsenal's situation was always the more prudent option, because they weren't in a hurry to go anywhere. Their objectives were longer-term. Couple that with very noticeable early green shoots of recovery, an FA Cup win delivered early in his tenure, and it was frankly no surprise they stuck with him. In contrast at Villa, we've already done most of the legwork of the rebuild job before Gerrard arrived. He was brought to the club, not to rebuild, but to progress. Smith had taken us as far as he could, now it was up to Gerrard to take us to the next level. He was even allowed to modify the transfer strategy and bring in established players with CL experience for big wages. The obvious implications here are, "results, rather sharpish please". Couple this with the fact that it's been 9 months now and it still looks like this team have never trained with each other before, we are losing literally every other game etc, and patience here doesn't seem anywhere near as prudent as it did with Arteta. In fact, it amounts to little more than blind faith for the sake of it. Pointing to Arteta like "look, it worked there" while completely ignoring (or not knowing?) the context just seems kind of desperate. What's the point? Who is Steven Gerrard to us? Why can't people just use the evidence of what they see to inform their opinions? This dogmatic stuff is so weird and frankly exhausting. 15 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, Keyblade said: In fact, it amounts to little more than blind faith for the sake of it. Pointing to Arteta like "look, it worked there" while completely ignoring (or not knowing?) the context just seems kind of desperate. What's the point? Who is Steven Gerrard to us? Why can't people just use the evidence of what they see to inform their opinions? This dogmatic stuff is so weird and frankly exhausting. For every Arteta{who I dont get the hype} is many Roy Keane, Tony Adams, Joey Barton, Paul Ince even Frank Lampards and Gary Neville If his name wasnt Steven Gerrard he wouldnt have got the job and thats the honest truth, if he was Tommy Wright, Ronny Deila, Neil Lennon or Ange Postecoglu he would never have got hired 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: For every Arteta{who I dont get the hype} is many Roy Keane, Tony Adams, Joey Barton, Paul Ince even Frank Lampards and Gary Neville If his name wasnt Steven Gerrard he wouldnt have got the job and thats the honest truth, if he was Tommy Wright, Ronny Deila, Neil Lennon or Ange Postecoglu he would never have got hired Hard to argue with this. If you search your heart of hearts and drop all pretense, you know it's true. Just like you know the real reason Frank Lampard's first 3 jobs in management were Derby, Chelsea and Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I was surprised when we appointed him as I thought we were a club looking to move forward with all the investment that has been made on the squad, this appointment was a step backwards in my opinion. The problem is if we were to sack him who is there to replace him right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I think today is very important for him. If he gets a win he'll buy himself more time and give people some hope. Having said that, a win today won't mean very much if he then fails to win any of the next 5 and he could still lose his job. Fail to win today and I think it's curtains for him unless he pulls off some insane results like beating West Ham, Arsenal and Leicester. It's 2 wins in 12 now since winning at Leeds in March. It's 10 wins in 28 since he was appointed. He said before the season started that he was confident we would not be inconsistent this season, well he needs to stop talking a good game and actually go out and prove it on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I think today is very important for him. If he gets a win he'll buy himself more time and give people some hope. Having said that, a win today won't mean very much if he then fails to win any of the next 5 and he could still lose his job. Fail to win today and I think it's curtains for him unless he pulls off some insane results like beating West Ham, Arsenal and Leicester. It's 2 wins in 12 now since winning at Leeds in March. It's 10 wins in 28 since he was appointed. He said before the season started that he was confident we would not be inconsistent this season, well he needs to stop talking a good game and actually go out and prove it on the pitch. In fairness he has stopped us being inconsistent, just not the way we expected 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, Zatman said: Bullshit nobody wants us to lose, difference between wanting amd expecting. Nah, at least some posters have specifically said they want us to lose so he's sacked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, DakotaVilla said: Serious question - what will your reaction be if we win and we play well? I would be happy, What sort of stupid question is that The problem is the results are crap and the football is crap. Its why people have no faith in him, if we were showing some improvement he wouldnt be getting so much anger aimed at him 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: Serious question - what will your reaction be if we win and we play well? Then people will be delighted and it will give us a bit of hope. But I think that outcome is unlikely tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: Serious question - what will your reaction be if we win and we play well? About the same as if Eva Green walked into my bedroom in lingerie, problem is there is a very low probability of either happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Gerrard is facing the same problem as every Manager at Villa since O'Neill. Inconsistency. Since 2006 we've had this hanging over us; lack of quality, poor appointment decisions, mental weakness. It takes some time to eradicate this loser vibe stinking out the place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Gerrard is facing the same problem as every Manager at Villa since O'Neill. Inconsistency. It's the nature of being a midtable club. The only time we've been consistent is when we were consistently shit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Keyblade said: Hindsight is great but Arsenal fans were technically right at the time. That was the worst Arsenal side anybody 35 and under have ever seen. They finished 8th the previous season, their worst finish since the early 90's. Three horrendous losses on the bounce, scoring none and conceding 9 I believe. If they got their wish and Arteta had been sacked, you couldn't really say it would be harsh on him. However, crucially, Arsenal and Arteta were/are in a unique position, quite different from ours which make comparisons kind of pointless. He was signed to oversee a long term rebuild/transition period. He and the higher ups made this abundantly clear. He was clearing out the old, high wage, unmotivated players and replacing them with younger more motivated players from the academy and elsewhere. Whether he was the second coming of Pep Guardiola, or the second coming of Tim Sherwood, this endeavour was always going to take time. Patience in Arsenal's situation was always the more prudent option, because they weren't in a hurry to go anywhere. Their objectives were longer-term. Couple that with very noticeable early green shoots of recovery, an FA Cup win delivered early in his tenure, and it was frankly no surprise they stuck with him. In contrast at Villa, we've already done most of the legwork of the rebuild job before Gerrard arrived. He was brought to the club, not to rebuild, but to progress. Smith had taken us as far as he could, now it was up to Gerrard to take us to the next level. He was even allowed to modify the transfer strategy and bring in established players with CL experience for big wages. The obvious implications here are, "results, rather sharpish please". Couple this with the fact that it's been 9 months now and it still looks like this team have never trained with each other before, we are losing literally every other game etc, and patience here doesn't seem anywhere near as prudent as it did with Arteta. In fact, it amounts to little more than blind faith for the sake of it. Pointing to Arteta like "look, it worked there" while completely ignoring (or not knowing?) the context just seems kind of desperate. What's the point? Who is Steven Gerrard to us? Why can't people just use the evidence of what they see to inform their opinions? This dogmatic stuff is so weird and frankly exhausting. Yep. But, I don’t see how even the Arsenal/Arteta example is comparable at all… seems like clutching at straws. When was the last time they finished in the bottom half? They still won trophies (our Emi was a big factor)… How can we make a comparison? We’re still pissing about in the lower half (14th, amazing…) with nothing to show for it. Their expectations, sadly, are on another level. It did seem like there was an opportunity to catch them at one point but that has long since faded… Ours are much smaller, including the demand from fans but also the constant messaging from the club. And we are nowhere near reaching them… We have been going nowhere, progress has stalled and declined even… no encouraging signs at all. It’s totally different. We are in a mess, wasting time and money as we go… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Davkaus said: It's the nature of being a midtable club. The only time we've been consistent is when we were consistently shit Yup, it takes time to change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: It takes some time to eradicate this loser vibe stinking out the place I just can’t get on board with this train of thought, turnover of staff at a football club is probably on par with glass collectors at pubs, Villa isn’t haunted. The way to not be losers is to win games, the way to win games is to be better at football on the day. Anything else is circumstance. Either that, or we’ve somehow managed to only sign players and coaches that exclusively are losers for 40 years. Every clubs fans think that way if they’re not winning everything - see ‘Spursy’ or ‘Same old Arsenal’ Edited August 13, 2022 by a m ole 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, a m ole said: I just can’t get on board with this train of thought, turnover of staff at a football club is probably on par with glass collectors at pubs, Villa isn’t haunted. The way to not be losers is to win games, the way to win games is to be better at football on the day. Anything else is circumstance. Either that, or we’ve somehow managed to only sign players and coaches that exclusively are losers for 40 years. Every clubs fans think that way if they’re not winning everything - see ‘Spursy’ or ‘Same old Arsenal’ We were winners under Dean, progressing quickly and on an upward trajectory… until that was derailed due to several factors… If ever time was needed (as people are asking for now) then surely it was more apt back then… There’s nothing to suggest that SG is a better or more capable manager than DS, so far he’s looked worse. Just riding on name and reputation as far as I can see and being given greater leeway due to it… Excuses… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: I would be happy, What sort of stupid question is that The problem is the results are crap and the football is crap. Its why people have no faith in him, if we were showing some improvement he wouldnt be getting so much anger aimed at him I fully get that people feel dejected and demoralised by now. We've been shit for over a decade, and we weren't even that good when we got results and finished 6th. But things CAN turn around. Suddenly a team just clicks, even after a long while of bad form/style/results. I'm not saying I think that will happen, but it is a possibility. Team sports have weird dynamics, and they are hard to predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: The other day, I was almost thinking we remind me of a lower level Man United. Although, on the flipside, I now think we have the right owners, as opposed to being rotten from the top down. There are similarities between Man U and Villa no doubt. However we have top owners, and they don’t! Our issue is, and you may hate this, Purslow. Picked by NSWE to run things. Excellent business man. An absolute freak wanting to play Football Manager IRL with real money. For everyone repeating all the good things he’s done for the club, I don’t disagree! But he is a randomly crazy posh Liverpool fan private equity bastard and I’m not convinced Villa will even survive under his reign. It doesn’t matter to him, he’s rich. He’s bet on SG. If anyone hates this post, I’ll be happy to discuss Purslow in detail as I have been extremely fascinated by him, and also done a lot of research. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 below copied from my match thread post.......i think im pretty much done with Gerrard, just incompetence. wow, reverting back to the "trusted" 4312, i would say im surprised but im not. I think this is evidence that Gerrard just doesnt know what he is doing, or a sign of desperation to "score goals yeahhh course", even though the system doesnt actually work well to control the ball or control possession. 4312....who needs to control the middle of the pitch. That midfield will concede control and possession. Buendia........ Ramsey keeps his spot after being pulled at half time in the previous game. McGinn, El Capitan, need i say more. Luiz not given a chance. not trying 4231 with Couts, Bailey and Buendia (prob our best 3 attacking players) Even if we win today, i just feel now, that Gerrard doesnt know what he is doing, or is choosing to die on a hill doing the same thing over and over. Im really on the verge of being done. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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