Steven Gerrard

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, Risso said:

Ignoring wins and picking a random date to make a point? OK then, think I'll leave you to it.

Did you not read his post?

[nick76]

19 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Me thinks Some seem intent on not giving Gerrard a chance due to the fact that he replaced their hero Smith. Even when presented the factual hard evidence in PPG etc there is a warped mindset we are no better off for sacking him and appointing Gerrard and things are all of sudden looking likely to be a struggle to push forwards next season. 

 

I havent said sack him once, Smith is yesterday news...unlike some I want to focus on why we are so poor, why some arent seeing reality that we have 18 points in the last 16 games, surely people can see this is poor.  I'm not looking to sack Gerrard, just some seem to be in a fantasy land that Gerrard has stopped the "rot" yet current form whether recently or 2022 tells us that is not the case. 

Talk about giving him a chance is great, but we can still analyse on the way through this journey and if you are happy then fine but I'm not and will continue to vent my frustration until it changes and I'm desperately hoping Gerrard can change over the summer into next season and this poor football gets better and results get better

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Risso said:

Even trolls can't dispute simple maths I'm afraid.

You must he new to the thread.

There's nothing a little goalpost moving, selective memory, fortune telling, and imagination, can't fix in here

[hippo]

Although not a fan I have to concede that the results so far are enough to keep in a job - and yes results have improved my concerns are what follows:-

(All based on my perception - not facts I accept)

1. I believe we have mostly decent players in the current squad - we start selling our current starters to prem rivals is a red flag imo 

2. I don't like the narrow formation. I don't believe it will work - and even if it does it's very boring 

3. I fear the strategy of buying development players (IE Watkins cash) will be abandoned for more ready made players 

4. I don't believe he will give extended game time to our youth prospects (despite his impressive debut yesterday I would be surprised if TI starts many of the early games next season for example)

 

He may prove me wrong on all the above. Next 6 months or so will provide many answers

 

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, Risso said:

What else would you call turning relegation form into not relegation form?

You actually dont think after a bad run that Smith, the streakiest manager ever wouldnt have gotten some wins followed by some loses followed by wins. 

Smith, Gerrard and many other managers wouldve got this team away from relegation, the squad is a midtable team.  Just as Gerrard lost 4 just and now has a draw and win, it's most likely that Smith might have done the same.  Us having 40 points at this point of the season with our squad isnt great, Gerrard hasnt done anything great. 

You criticise me for using random points of data, do you think 11 games is a fair amount of games to judge a ppg if you are criticising me for using 16 games for Gerrard.

Before the Norwich game somebody mentioned the 11 games bad run by Smith and said Gerrard stopped the "rot" and yet I pointed out the last 11 games under Gerrard we have 6 defeats 2 draws and 3 wins...so 11 games and 11 points, which doesnt look much different to Smiths 11 games and 10 points.

We wouldve never got relegated under Smith and never under Gerrard, both managers though have been poor for us this season, there is no way we should be here now.  Even aside from that, watching Villa this season has mostly been hard to watch.

[VillaJay]

I can understand the concerns around Gerrard, our performances have been been inconsistent and fairly dull, bar the Leeds and Southampton games. However, this team has proven it's a mid-table side time and time again, as much as I like the current villa team, they're a likeable bunch, but they're not good enough to challenge the top 6/7 as it stands, and Gerrard I believe sees this, he's used to being in the mix at the top and whether he's good enough to get us there, I don't know, but in order to progress we need to spend and spend on proven quality, otherwise what's the point finishing midtable pl.

The best season outside of the 95/96 season I've enjoyed was the season we were promoted from the champ, we achieved something huge, bouncing around midtable is dull and I hope and expect our owners and manager have bigger ambitions than that.

Edited May 1, 2022 by VillaJay

[Zatman]

51 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Me thinks Some seem intent on not giving Gerrard a chance due to the fact that he replaced their hero Smith. Even when presented the factual hard evidence in PPG etc there is a warped mindset we are no better off for sacking him and appointing Gerrard and things are all of sudden looking likely to be a struggle to push forwards next season. 

 

Or people like Gerrard like Bruce because he was a big name and media favourite

Ange Postecoglu has done more in Scotland for example 

[nick76]

21 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

You must he new to the thread.

There's nothing a little goalpost moving, selective memory, fortune telling, and imagination, can't fix in here

why criticise me when I'm providing maths and good critique as well.  Just because some dont agree with me doesnt mean I'm a troll and I think I'm fairly consistent so I dont know where this moving the goal posts comes from

[hippo]

Just now, VillaJay said:

I can understand the concerns around Gerrard, our performances have been been inconsistent and fairly dull, bar the Leeds and Southampton games. However, this team has proven it's a mid-table side time and time again, as much as I like the current villa team, they're a likeable bunch, but they're not good enough to challenge the top 6/7 as it stands, and Gerrard I believe sees this, he's used to being in the mix at the top and whether he's good enough to get us there, I don't know, but in order to progress we need to spend and spend on proven quality, otherwise what's the point finishing midtable pl. The best season outside of the 95/96 season I've enjoyed was the season we were promoted from the champ, we achieved something huge, bouncing around midtable is dull and I hope and expect our owners and manager have bigger ambitions than that.

Hmmmm 

I really don't think Gerrard demonstrates big ambitions - sure it's a high profile big name as a player - but by no means is he a top calibre manager.

I can help the plan is to try and pack the squad with big name players maybe just past their prime - I just don't see it working.

The best villa teams imo have always been built around a team of promising players approaching their prime.

All imo of course.

 

[thabucks]

23 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I havent said sack him once, Smith is yesterday news...unlike some I want to focus on why we are so poor, why some arent seeing reality that we have 18 points in the last 16 games, surely people can see this is poor.  I'm not looking to sack Gerrard, just some seem to be in a fantasy land that Gerrard has stopped the "rot" yet current form whether recently or 2022 tells us that is not the case. 

Talk about giving him a chance is great, but we can still analyse on the way through this journey and if you are happy then fine but I'm not and will continue to vent my frustration until it changes and I'm desperately hoping Gerrard can change over the summer into next season and this poor football gets better and results get better

Fair enough… I see it as we are in a mini league battle for 9th which is kinda exciting no…

we will finish where we deserve to and though I don’t think we will get top 10, I don’t see that as failure  necessarily. The WC break is the time to fairly judge IMO. Unless he tanks the rest of the season and first 7/8 games of next in which case he should go. 

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, thabucks said:

 

we will finish where we deserve to and though I don’t think we will get top 10, I don’t see that as failure  necessarily. The WC break is the time to fairly judge IMO. Unless he tanks the rest of the season and first 7/8 games of next in which case he should go. 

I completely agree re time frame but I will comment and judge along the way especially if we go through long spells of bad form or people say we are doing well when we obviously arent.  The whole "stopped the rot" claim is just hilarious because our form and performances suggest otherwise in 2022.  Yes he needs the summer and early next season to show what he can do but i get called troll or criticised if I raise concerns based on what is currently being produced on the pitch.

Edited May 1, 2022 by nick76

[Sam-AVFC]

53 minutes ago, Risso said:

What else would you call turning relegation form into not relegation form?

This isn't a comment on his overall tenure, but I'd call it the bare minimum.

[tinker]

No stats needed, basically we're just boring to watch despite having more creative talent than 95% of the other teams.

[Zatman]

10 minutes ago, tinker said:

No stats needed, basically we're just boring to watch despite having more creative talent than 95% of the other teams.

Coutinho, Buendia, Ings, Watkins, Bailey, Traore, Ramsey 

Except Liverpool and City show me a better all round attacking threat

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

why criticise me when I'm providing maths and good critique as well.  Just because some dont agree with me doesnt mean I'm a troll and I think I'm fairly consistent so I dont know where this moving the goal posts comes from

Mate, I wasn't insinuating you were a troll.

I thought it was a general comment to multiple posters.

I'm just dropping into the thread every now and then to have a general sly dig at people and getting back out for my own sanity.

As there is literally nothing new but the same circular arguments and counterpoints.

So I'm only just quick scanning posts.

I know you only troll in the Keinan Davis thread. Lol

[briny_ear]

@nick76 I have to say you are a master at cherry picking statistics to bolster your rather partial arguments. All these figures you have been quoting about 18 points from 16 games, 11 points from 11 games, etc., appear to be carefully honed to present Gerrard’s achievements in the worst light possible.

Why are you selecting particular sequences of matches in this way? Surely not because they are carefully calibrated to present a false impression of our performance since November?

The only statistics that seem relevant are those for the overall performance since Gerrard took over. Anything else has little justification. 

The actual figures we need to focus on are that we have 30 points from 22 matches under Gerrard.That has pulled us up from a position of 10 points from 11 matches under Smith to 40 points from 33. This is obviously going to be a disappointing season but I don’t think you can blame Gerrard entirely or even mainly for that. If you create a league table of performance since November 19th (when he took control of the team) to the present day, Villa are 9th. We are beaten by Man C, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Man U, Newcastle and Wolves, and we have done better than all the rest.

I think we would all have hoped for better and I am sure Steven Gerrard is disappointed that he hasn’t delivered this. But his performance is by no means the disaster you are trying to make out and he certainly has earned another season trying to sort out the issues with our current squad.

You ask if Smith would have turned round his disastrous start to this season if he had stayed? The only thing I have to go on is that without Grealish in the side he consistently achieved about 0.9 points per match, which was his 2021-22 performance when he was sacked. You are asking a question it is impossible to answer but all of the objective evidence suggests we would be scrapping it out with Everton and Leeds right now. Gerrard’s 1.3-1.4 points per match, while not stellar, has at least lifted away from that battle.
 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by briny_ear

[Risso]

We've got games in hand and three very winnable games against Burnley and Crystal Palace. A top half finish isn't out of the question by any means, and given what he inherited points wise that would be a very decent result indeed.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

23 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

@nick76 I have to say you are a master at cherry picking statistics to bolster your rather partial arguments. All these figures you have been quoting about 18 points from 16 games, 11 points from 11 games, etc., appear to be carefully honed to present Gerrard’s achievements in the worst light possible.

Why are you selecting particular sequences of matches in this way? Surely not because they are carefully calibrated to present a false impression of our performance since November?

The only statistics that seem relevant are those for the overall performance since Gerrard took over. Anything else has little justification. 

The actual figures we need to focus on are that we have 30 points from 22 matches under Gerrard.That has pulled us up from a position of 10 points from 11 matches under Smith to 40 points from 33. This is obviously going to be a disappointing season but I don’t think you can blame Gerrard entirely or even mainly for that. If you create a league table of performance since November 19th (when he took control of the team) to the present day, Villa are 9th. We are beaten by Man C, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Man U, Newcastle and Wolves, and we have done better than all the rest.

I think we would all have hoped for better and I am sure Steven Gerrard is disappointed that he hasn’t delivered this. But his performance is by no means the disaster you are trying to make out and he certainly has earned another season trying to sort out the issues with our current squad.

You ask if Smith would have turned round his disastrous start to this season if he had stayed? The only thing I have to go on is that without Grealish in the side he consistently achieved about 0.9 points per match, which was his 2021-22 performance when he was sacked. You are asking a question it is impossible to answer but all of the objective evidence suggests we would be scrapping it out with Everton and Leeds right now. Gerrard’s 1.3-1.4 points per match, while not stellar, has at least lifted away from that battle.
 

 

 

Well @Zatman has basically just said we have a title challenging attacking lineup.... So I can see why people are upset. Lol

We should actually be top 4 at minimum.

Edited May 1, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Well @Zatman has basically just said we have a title challenging attacking lineup.... So I can see why peoe are upset. Lol

We should actually be top 4 at minimum.

 You do know you cant play 7 attacking players yet we have all this attacking talent and play such negative football. I respect you believe this trainee manager knows what he is doing but he looks so far away from being capable it might be blinkering your views. Would you have similar faith if Ange Postecoglu was manager who has won as many trophies in the Scottish league?

At the end of the day I gave Paul Lambert too much time which was my own fault and I wont do the same again when a manager is as shit in my eyes

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, Risso said:

We've got games in hand and three very winnable games against Burnley and Crystal Palace. A top half finish isn't out of the question by any means, and given what he inherited points wise that would be a very decent result indeed.

Sod the facts and circumstances, if he doesn't get 55 points at least.... It's a failed season.