Steven Gerrard

[AV82]

2 hours ago, PerryBarrPet said:

Spot on. We need to stop defending/finding excuses for players who cannot or will not perform.  We’re not talking about young players who need schooling!

The way Gerrard sets us up doesn't help. McGinn losing the ball on the half way line with only the back 4 behind him is only gonna end up one way against a side like Wolves.

[david-avfc]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Is it?

We got 55 points last season, and this squad is better IMO.

We have more options than last season but replacing our best player with 3 or 4 lesser quality players who don’t really fit in doesn’t make a better squad.

Even with Coutinho I’d say he has better technique and is better in individual moments, but he doesn’t have close to the same overall influence that our ex-captain had throughout the game in most instances, a very unique player in that regard.

I think there’s a tough balancing act in the summer between getting new players in to fit Gerrards plans but without going overboard on making sideways signings, like switching Targett for Digne, otherwise it will be another “transition season” where we don’t really go anywhere

[Spoony]

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

[hippo]

12 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

You have to say that is true. Furthermore the results under Stevie G aren't disastrous by any means.

My issues are his favoured narrow formation....and the possibility of him going for a short term bounce with a load of players on high wages - with little sell on value. Blocking our youth talent as well.

And the divisise impact he had on the club amongst the supporters.

We don't know about the players - but the possibility of a new player coming in and thinking 'hmmm - this narrow formation is bllx' seems high to me.

We are also gambling that the current crop of players aren't good enough - but the bloke choosing and coaching the new ones is.....

 

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

Yep, those first six Gerrard games got us 12 points, just worrying the next 13 games have only got us 14 points with tough fixtures coming up.  

I don’t think we were ever really in trouble of relegation under Smith despite the poor run but that’s history now. So we’ve moved on from that it’s just worrying our current run.

[david-avfc]

1 hour ago, NeilS said:

I think we are fooling ourselves if we judge everything on that season. It was an odd ball season where covid played a massive part in disrupting season preparation, and we took advantage early on with some fantastic results. I know I will get pelters for saying this, but I highly doubt we beat Liverpool 7-2 under normal circumstances. The second half of the season when teams started to get back to normal our form dropped off the cliff. Grealish lifted us above and carried a few along with him.

I think the players are mentally fragile, they lose confidence quickly and until we can bring in better quality with stronger belief we will continue to be a mid table team.
 

It is up to Lange and his team to identify traits in players that will help us improve our consistency , and I think maybe that desire and hunger has been overlooked by the scouts in the past in favour of other traits. I think this is where Gerrard will be looking to bring in players who have the character to sustain a decent run of form. I don’t think many in the squad have that in them.

I think yes and no, we did have a one-off good season but if you looked at our squad last season it should be at least 11th. We benefitted from Covid but equally we also would have finished several places higher if Grealish wasn’t injured for 3 months.
 

We should have prioritised signing a leader to replace Grealish in the summer rather than just focusing replacing him with extra attackers. The Purslow idea that we would replace Grealish’s attributes with 3 separate players never made any sense as it never considered the limitation that we can only field 11 players at the same time.

[The_Steve]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

and it hasnt been just a few games it 15 months of constant 45 minute displays, we just dont know if we are going to play the first half or second half.  It is so rare for us to play for a full 90 mins it's scary!

That’s why I believe a bigger squad overhaul is happening. Too many players happy to be passengers or just blow hot and cold. We won’t progress further otherwise and the club hierarchy recognise that. 

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Spoony said:

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

I think we are probably about where we would have been either way. There was no real chance we were getting sucked in - the teams down there are just TOO bad. 

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:a key CDM signing and maybe a battle hardened experienced player who is 30 or 31 who knows how to win. Knows how to get a team back into a game

Players who are 30 or 31 also know how to lose, they have done it many more times then the youngsters.

Winners, as we talk about them, are those who’ve played for good clubs and therefore won trophies. Grealish will become a winner in a couple of months.

Winners who might consider coming to Villa would do so to get paid, a lot. They already have the trophies and would rather be looking for a lucrative final contract. They would be the opposite of hungry, like a low budget version of when winners like Hazard come to Real Madrid or Ramos to PSG.

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, Mantis said:

I do wonder how much of that was due to playing behind closed doors. Mentally so many of these players are incredibly weak and fragile.

I think that's a leap tbh. 

Who is weak? Someone like McGinn who is annoyingly inconsistent is incredibly brave and won't eff out of the game when he's having a rotter. He keeps getting the ball and losing it.

3 hours ago, NeilS said:

I think we are fooling ourselves if we judge everything on that season. It was an odd ball season where covid played a massive part in disrupting season preparation, and we took advantage early on with some fantastic results. I know I will get pelters for saying this, but I highly doubt we beat Liverpool 7-2 under normal circumstances. The second half of the season when teams started to get back to normal our form dropped off the cliff. Grealish lifted us above and carried a few along with him.

I think that's fair.

3 hours ago, NeilS said:

I think the players are mentally fragile, they lose confidence quickly and until we can bring in better quality with stronger belief we will continue to be a mid table team.

I don't think that's fair. They aren't Champions League players but lack of organisation is much more an issue than mental strength.

3 hours ago, NeilS said:

It is up to Lange and his team to identify traits in players that will help us improve our consistency , and I think maybe that desire and hunger has been overlooked by the scouts in the past in favour of other traits. I think this is where Gerrard will be looking to bring in players who have the character to sustain a decent run of form. I don’t think many in the squad have that in them.

I agree. And we know Smith spoke about this constantly, so I think most of our signings have been fairly strong characters.

1 hour ago, david-avfc said:

We have more options than last season but replacing our best player with 3 or 4 lesser quality players who don’t really fit in doesn’t make a better squad.

Even with Coutinho I’d say he has better technique and is better in individual moments, but he doesn’t have close to the same overall influence that our ex-captain had throughout the game in most instances, a very unique player in that regard.

Coutinho isn't Grealish, we know this. I think having more options is better than one absolutely outstanding player.

1 hour ago, david-avfc said:

I think there’s a tough balancing act in the summer between getting new players in to fit Gerrards plans but without going overboard on making sideways signings, like switching Targett for Digne, otherwise it will be another “transition season” where we don’t really go anywhere

I hope Gerrard realises how important this summer is for him as well as us. Understands how lucky he is to be able to spend the amount we will.

If we bust after getting him 3/4/5 starting players, that's him done for anyone above us the league. And anyone lower he ends up at will likely have a tiny proportion of the money we do.

My big concern is that the better the players are, the more ineffective his cautious approach will be.

[Tom13]

23 hours ago, Chicken Field said:

And judging from the players we have signed this summer and since Gerrard came in, there is little indication that they are thinking 2-3 years in the future, our club is seemingly rather thinking about the here and now

Assuming you mean January as well as the summer, who are you referring to? Digne is 28, fine age. Coutinho and Ings the eldest, and Coutinho is only on loan but is surely a special exception anyway? Ings I was never sure about and even less so now as we're not even giving the guy a chance. But Buendia and Bailey are obviously plenty young enough.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Spurs hitting peak form and morphing into Bayern Munich at the perfect time

Edited April 3, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[osmark86]

54 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Spurs hitting peak form and morhing into Bayern Munich at the perfect time

Yup we're doomed

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Spurs hitting peak form and morhing into Bayern Munich at the perfect time

For all our losses, we’ve rarely been beaten with big numbers this season. We usually lose 2-1 or 1-0. Interesting to see if Spurs can change that.

[KentVillan]

4 hours ago, Spoony said:

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

Smith got sacked after losing to Watford, Chelsea, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham, and Southampton.

Gerrard has also lost to 5 of those 7 teams. Southampton he beat, and the Spurs result we'll find out on Saturday... but they are favourites to beat us.

If we do lose to Spurs on Saturday, it's hard to honestly say Gerrard has been the difference this season. It'll just be a continuation of much the same pattern of losing to the top 10 sides and picking up points against the sides below us.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Gerrard, because I think he deserves a summer to reshape the squad a bit, bed in his ideas, and have a full crack at a season. But the idea that he has turned our season around is very questionable. We were never relegation fodder, and Smith would almost certainly have put together a string of results, as he always did whenever we had a bad patch.

We're currently a team that struggles against better sides, and looks good against weaker sides. Both managers have displayed exactly the same pattern, with the odd exception (Smith's Man Utd win, Gerrard's Leicester win).

 

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, Mantis said:

I do wonder how much of that was due to playing behind closed doors. Mentally so many of these players are incredibly weak and fragile.

I dont buy that, Targett was mentally fragile and went to a team with a bigger stadium and was fine. We started 8 internationals yesterday and brought on 3 more 

It might be the manager isnt that great 

[Zatman]

5 hours ago, Spoony said:

Probably worth a reminder that in the final days of Smith we were being dragged into a relegation battle. Gerrard has moved us 14 points clear. 

Was that the new manager bounce though, in 2022 we have been poor except that 3 game winning streak. I think we are Roy Hodgson only Watford win.

FWIW I dont think we would have been near a relegation battle with Smith either 

[VillaParkAvenue]

11 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Smith got sacked after losing to Watford, Chelsea, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham, and Southampton.

Gerrard has also lost to 5 of those 7 teams. Southampton he beat, and the Spurs result we'll find out on Saturday... but they are favourites to beat us.

If we do lose to Spurs on Saturday, it's hard to honestly say Gerrard has been the difference this season. It'll just be a continuation of much the same pattern of losing to the top 10 sides and picking up points against the sides below us.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Gerrard, because I think he deserves a summer to reshape the squad a bit, bed in his ideas, and have a full crack at a season. But the idea that he has turned our season around is very questionable. We were never relegation fodder, and Smith would almost certainly have put together a string of results, as he always did whenever we had a bad patch.

We're currently a team that struggles against better sides, and looks good against weaker sides. Both managers have displayed exactly the same pattern, with the odd exception (Smith's Man Utd win, Gerrard's Leicester win).

 

That pattern is new for this season though. Last season under Smith, we beat Liverpool, Arsenal twice, Chelsea and Spurs. On the other hand, we also got beat by Burnley, Sheffield and Leeds.

Last season felt like we could beat anyone on a good day, that feeling is gone. 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

That pattern is new for this season though. Last season under Smith, we beat Liverpool, Arsenal twice, Chelsea and Spurs. On the other hand, we also got beat by Burnley, Sheffield and Leeds.

Last season felt like we could beat anyone on a good day, that feeling is gone. 

Thats also on our setup now. We dont have an off the cuff player or a system. Smith played Jack and Traore who are unpredictable and caused havoc. We have 2 really good playmakers under Gerrard but play a boring easy to play against style that suffocates them

Any sensible team can defend against us 

[KentVillan]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

That pattern is new for this season though. Last season under Smith, we beat Liverpool, Arsenal twice, Chelsea and Spurs. On the other hand, we also got beat by Burnley, Sheffield and Leeds.

Last season felt like we could beat anyone on a good day, that feeling is gone. 

Yep. Perhaps that was because we had a player who could magic something out of nothing, and was also incredible at retaining possession against better sides when our backs were against the wall. And Watkins was brilliant last season as an isolated striker, which also helped against better sides - we haven't really seen that this year.

This season we look best against teams who let us knock it about a bit, and then we can bring all our attacking quality into the game. But as soon as the other team presses us and dominates possession, we look awful. Neither manager has solved this.

I actually thought Gerrard had fixed this in the Man City game, which IMO was his best game as Villa manager, despite us losing. That's the game that still gives me faith that he can turn this around with a specialist DM.

But I'm really not convinced by the turnaround narrative.