Languages, accents, dialects an' t'ing

[Villadevon]

Some may find this interesting.

 

 

[mjmooney]

10 hours ago, Villadevon said:

Some may find this interesting.

 

 

Very much so. 

The mediaeval ones sound very much like geordie (presumably the scandinavian influence). 

[Risso]

14 hours ago, bickster said:

Not that long relatively speaking. It's one of the younger UK dialects. Scouse is an amalgamation of Irish / Welsh / Lancashire accents and the Irish and Welsh only started  arriving in Liverpool in numbers in the late 19th century. Now given that it would take a good couple of generations for the accent to start developing, it can only really be just over 100 years old. It is also an accent that is constantly developing and there are a number of dominant strains. But all those people from the 60s that became famous don't speak anything like the current population.

The Birmingham / West Midlands accents on the other hand are probably the oldest as they are said to much closer to the English spoken in Shakespearian times and earlier than any of the others and they don't change anywhere near as much

I think if you listen to recordings of most regional accents, they've all changed quite a bit over the years since the war.  Some more than others of course, and as you say Brummie probably less than others. I think American music/films/TV, the effect of immigration and people moving around the country a lot more have all played a large part in the changes.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Very much so. 

The mediaeval ones sound very much like geordie (presumably the scandinavian influence). 

Early ones sounded like gyppo’s to me! 

[og1874]

Im very concerned that I’ve picked up a bit of a  Canadian twang since I moved over here. I frequently find myself either dropping t’s (torono instead of toronto) or turning them into d’s (oddawa instead of Ottawa)

The full on brogue comes back after I’ve been on the phone home, but I fear that, day to day, I’ve adopted a horrific hybrid, such is the frequency that natives ask if I’m a Newfie

and speaking of newfie, if you haven’t heard that abomination, prepare your ears and souls for a true horror:

 

[sidcow]

All the kids these days sound like wannabe gangstas. I think there is going to be a big change in accents over the next 20 years with a more unified sound. Less regional variables. 

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, og1874 said:

Im very concerned that I’ve picked up a bit of a  Canadian twang since I moved over here. I frequently find myself either dropping t’s (torono instead of toronto) or turning them into d’s (oddawa instead of Ottawa)

The full on brogue comes back after I’ve been on the phone home, but I fear that, day to day, I’ve adopted a horrific hybrid, such is the frequency that natives ask if I’m a Newfie

and speaking of newfie, if you haven’t heard that abomination, prepare your ears and souls for a true horror:

 

Newfie definitely sounds like Irish to me. 

[og1874]

5 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Newfie definitely sounds like Irish to me. 

Yeah it's basically 3 words Canadian, 3 words Irish, and it makes absolute mush of my brain when I hear it - it's like I'm trying to calibrate what the accent is, but it keeps flipping and eventually my brain just gives up

Ironically, after being in Canada for the best part of 15 years I have now lost the ability to tell the difference between a Canadian accent and and Irish accent if I hear it in the street. My wife usually has to point out someone is Irish, because they sound the same in isolation. It's only with a newfie accent where I can spot the immediate difference

[mjmooney]

I used to work with a woman who couldn't distinguish or identify accents at all. She claimed to be able to tell apart only three: Yorkshire, not-Yorkshire English, and 'foreign'. Couldn't tell French from Spanish, scouse from cockney, etc.

[og1874]

4 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I used to work with a woman who couldn't distinguish or identify accents at all. She claimed to be able to tell apart only three: Yorkshire, not-Yorkshire English, and 'foreign'. Couldn't tell French from Spanish, scouse from cockney, etc.

My mother can't tell the difference between English and Australian accents, but could pick a Canadian accent out of a hundred North Americans. She's not Canadian, and has been here twice in her life, but she somehow picks up on an accent that is almost identical to what most non-North Americans would class as a generic North American accent. It's actually insane. She'll randomly be talking to someone in Ireland and roll out "so what part of Canada are you from" and they just look absolutely blown away. It's actually very impressive given that, to my knowledge, she'd met one Canadian in her life prior to me moving over here.

*EDIT*

And for sheer randomness, my Canadian wife can't tell the difference between Geordie and Scottish. She swears they're identical.

Edited April 9, 2022 by og1874

[Chine]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

All the kids these days sound like wannabe gangstas. I think there is going to be a big change in accents over the next 20 years with a more unified sound. Less regional variables. 

Exactly this ! One of the teams I coach most of the players come from some very nice areas in and around Stratford Upon Avon , well to do well spoken parents , yet the child comes out with some nonsense accent like a mix between Clinton Morrison and a ‘in da hood’ New York film character , very odd and quite annoying 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, og1874 said:

And for sheer randomness, my Canadian wife can't tell the difference between Geordie and Scottish. She swears they're identical.

There is no single Scottish accent, just like England there are lots. The difference between the accents of Glasgow and Edinburgh is massive for example and they are only 40 miles apart

Now Glaswegian is as impenetrably harsh as Geordie but the Edinburgh accent is soft and easy to understand

[og1874]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

There is no single Scottish accent, just like England there are lots. The difference between the accents of Glasgow and Edinburgh is massive for example and they are only 40 miles apart

Now Glaswegian is as impenetrably harsh as Geordie but the Edinburgh accent is soft and easy to understand

No, for sure, but there are lots of similarities between them. Similar to the way there's a different accent basically by each town in Ireland, never mind major region

[choffer]

3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Early ones sounded like gyppo’s to me! 

Any chance you could have a stab at re-phrasing that?

[mjmooney]

14 minutes ago, og1874 said:

No, for sure, but there are lots of similarities between them. Similar to the way there's a different accent basically by each town in Ireland, never mind major region

I think we discussed this early in the thread. As soon as you mention any accent, somebody will tell you that Leeds is different to Sheffield, Brummie is different to black country, Cornwall is different to Devon, and so on. And it's all true. But I think we all recognise that there are broad 'families' of accents - west country, Lancashire, west midlands, Scots, Welsh, etc. 

[AlwaysAVFC]

3 hours ago, og1874 said:

My mother can't tell the difference between English and Australian accents

My mate from West Sussex frequently has people thinking he's Australian. It wasn't always non British either. Not something I ever really picked up.

 

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I think we discussed this early in the thread. As soon as you mention any accent, somebody will tell you that Leeds is different to Sheffield, Brummie is different to black country, Cornwall is different to Devon, and so on. And it's all true. But I think we all recognise that there are broad 'families' of accents - west country, Lancashire, west midlands, Scots, Welsh, etc. 

I just cant explain away Coventry. How the **** did West Country appear to close to the Birmingham conurbation? 

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, sidcow said:

I just cant explain away Coventry. How the **** did West Country appear to close to the Birmingham conurbation? 

I have no idea what a Cov accent is. And I used to go out with a Coventry girl. 

[Chindie]

I seem to recall reading that the Brummie accent (and family of accents, if you will - yamyam etc) are thought to be closest in tone in English to the way the Anglo-Saxons spoke. Supposedly it's a very old twang.

Which can then be contrasted with one of the newest accents/dialects, MLE - Multi-cultural London English. Which is the tone you'll hear from the London yoof, a weird mix of working class London, West Indies, Pakistani, Indian tones and slang with some American influence thrown in as well. It's the way pretty much any London born footballer that isn't overtly cockney talks, and because it's become a culturally prominent accent through TV and music it'll probably influence all other accents going forwards.

[Risso]

9 hours ago, Chindie said:

I seem to recall reading that the Brummie accent (and family of accents, if you will - yamyam etc) are thought to be closest in tone in English to the way the Anglo-Saxons spoke. Supposedly it's a very old twang.

Which can then be contrasted with one of the newest accents/dialects, MLE - Multi-cultural London English. Which is the tone you'll hear from the London yoof, a weird mix of working class London, West Indies, Pakistani, Indian tones and slang with some American influence thrown in as well. It's the way pretty much any London born footballer that isn't overtly cockney talks, and because it's become a culturally prominent accent through TV and music it'll probably influence all other accents going forwards.

Emile Smith Rowe is a prime example of the London accent you talk about. Notice how he pronounces the world 'like' for example.