Ratings & Reactions: Crystal Palace v Villa

[briny_ear]

8 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

They're chomping at the bit, some of them, and I'm afraid that will never change. They would actually enjoy being proven right and, for me, that's shameful. 

It's comments like this that sometimes make it hard to have a grown up discussion on this site. Reducing everything to a playground fight.

Edited May 17, 2021 by briny_ear

[Icarium]

5 hours ago, Jas10 said:

The question is: Why does anyone expect (or even want) Dean to fail?

 

I don't think anyone here actually wants Dean to fail. But everyone wants the club to succeed, and so far under Dean we have had an upward trajectory, until the turn of the year.

Old bad habits have come back, and he is being out foxed tactically over and over again. The concern is that the same problems keep coming back.

The question is how much faith people have in his ability to sort out these recurring issues. Some people on here believe he will single handedly lead us to champions league glory with enough time.

Others worry that the slow downward drift of last decade will return.

Personally I think he has done well so far, but needs to show that the the last few months of rubbish football are behind him before the middle of next season. Give him one more summer recruiting window to see what he can do with (hopefully) a more capable midfield 3

[AJ]

Two very contrasting halves of football. 

After the first half, I thought we were in for the most exciting game of football from Villa this year. At 2-1 ahead, I thought that there was going to be more goals from us.

Come the second half, it was like invasion of the body snatchers, only that circus clowns had taken over the bodies of our footballers. 

I gave Targett MOTM. He tries so hard, and he seemed to be the player who had least gone backward from half time. He is very important to us. Jack is an exceptional footballer, but at least we have reasonable cover for him at least. If Targett is out, that would be the biggest step backwards. If Neil Taylor is on the pitch, even God couldn't help us. He will be too busy laughing.

[peterw]

martinez - 6

Elmo - 5

Konsa - 7

hause - 6

targett - 6

Luiz - 6

mcGinn - 6

ramsey - 5

Traore - 5

watkins - 6

El Ghazi - 6

 

either average or below average after a very bright opening 20 mins or so, then dipped unjtil they scored and responded well.

Second half was poor but not sure what options Smith had to try and stem their pressure. You could argue nakamba to come on but he usually is the option for the final few minutes when we're hanging on to something. its easy to forget that as average as we were second half it wasn't until a  deflected goal with 15 mins left that Palace got level. Until then the only change was a positive one with Jack coming on. That we conceded a very poor 3rd right after doesn't detract from the fact that until the 75th minute we were still in the box position. 

Disappointing end but i think Cash or Mings in the team and its a lot different.

[Five Ken McNaughts]

3 hours ago, AJ said:

Two very contrasting halves of football. 

After the first half, I thought we were in for the most exciting game of football from Villa this year. At 2-1 ahead, I thought that there was going to be more goals from us.

Come the second half, it was like invasion of the body snatchers, only that circus clowns had taken over the bodies of our footballers. 

This is what so infuriated me yesterday (and led to a couple of posts where I should probably have counted to ten). Where did all that energy and will-to-win suddenly disappear to? Why are we seemingly so incapable of applying ourselves for 90 minutes? The “first half at Burnley”, the “last half-hour against Fulham” and now the “first half at Palace” – great. Plenty of skill and plenty of spirit in those segments. But how often do we actually put in a solid 90 minutes of focus and graft? 1 in 5 games? 1 in 10? To me, it feels like such a fundamental weakness in the group psyche that until the reasons behind it are identified and addressed we will always be limited in what we can achieve. All too often it seems to be a case of “Fight like lions... for a bit.”

Edited May 17, 2021 by Five Ken McNaughts

[sheepyvillian]

7 hours ago, briny_ear said:

It's comments like this that sometimes make it hard to have a grown up discussion on this site. Reducing everything to a playground fight.

If the cap fits.

[onmeedson]

Palace just wanted it more than we did, and fitness seems to kick in at 70 mins with a few players. We all know that the bench is not great and Dean sticks to his 11 players but the work they have to do take's its toil and a rest now and again might help the 11. Squad players have a purpose for injuries and the like but you can use them in games to rest the weary and bolster an area. Midfield was being run ragged at palace did we put an extra player in there or just use jack as a comeback, we really miss Matty Cash when he is out and Konsa suffers when he's not there for the amount of running matty doe's. They got lucky with the 3rd but we could help ourselves much more by managing our first 11 a little bit better and getting Squad or youngsters more game time and maybe the beach will not come so early.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Jas10 said:

The question is: Why does anyone expect (or even want) Dean to fail?

 

I would be staggered to think any discerning fan of Aston Villa wants that....We all want him to succeed, because then we do.

Personally......I have wanted EVERY Aston Villa manager to succeed, irrespective of my personal preferences.

Liking a Villa Manager is a bonus and I like Dean......but the whole thing is about results and I want Aston Villa to be associated with good results.

Edited May 17, 2021 by TRO

[villalad21]

16 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

You must be watching different games to me 

The players and manager are making the same mistakes now they were making 3 years ago when DS took over.

The team is riddled with individual errors, the team look bereft of basic footballing skill, and we almost always suffer from the half time break.

The manager insists on the same tactics and formation for nearly every games, and hardly ever makes changes when its clear the game has gotten away from us, instead making them only when forced, and more often than not sticks to like for like changes rather than trying to change a game.

All that really changed between last season and this, is that we pressed harder and higher up the pitch.  Once teams figured out that if you do the same to us, we make errors, our season changed.

Smith is a one trick pony, and he's been found out.

Smith has always been reactive.

Always been this way. If his pre game tactics are working then it's great. If they aren't we are screwed and he have no idea how to change a game.

Not seen the stats about this but we must be one of the worst comeback teams in the league. To make it even worse we can't even hold on to leads now.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, onmeedson said:

Palace just wanted it more than we did, and fitness seems to kick in at 70 mins with a few players. We all know that the bench is not great and Dean sticks to his 11 players but the work they have to do take's its toil and a rest now and again might help the 11. Squad players have a purpose for injuries and the like but you can use them in games to rest the weary and bolster an area. Midfield was being run ragged at palace did we put an extra player in there or just use jack as a comeback, we really miss Matty Cash when he is out and Konsa suffers when he's not there for the amount of running matty doe's. They got lucky with the 3rd but we could help ourselves much more by managing our first 11 a little bit better and getting Squad or youngsters more game time and maybe the beach will not come so early.

I think your points are valid....but many teams could claim Beach Status, Everton could I guess....but equally some others have not.

I think the 70 minutes claim has legs, but I also think Midfield is not right, and has not been right this year....we get overrun far too easily......and its become a laboured point, with no solution...Lets see if we address  it in the closed season?

When you say Palace wanted it more, that is a concerning claim and opens up further questions....this is not a one off, its a trait.

I guess, this summer will be a crucial time for us.

 

 

[villalad21]

Palace got physical with us in the second half and our midfield couldn't cope with it.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54758063

4-1. Bielsa out!

 

That is a reasonable retort...and one to gain solace with, but

The stat of dropping 19 points from winning positions, this year, is concerning and poses plenty of questions as to why.

Even in the game itself against Palace, we started well, and they stood off us in that period, in the second we cam up against the typical close down and close contact and their initiative grew.

We surrender initiative in a game, too regular for comfort.

I hope we have the nous to address this in the closed season.....and bring in specialist players who have a natural instinct for controlling a game. I think it should be clear to eveyone, the issues, we have.

Getting this right in the summer, will have a significant affect on our progress to date.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is a reasonable retort...and one to gain solace with, but

The stat of dropping 19 points from winning positions, this year, is concerning and poses plenty of questions as to why.

Even in the game itself against Palace, we started well, and they stood off us in that period, in the second we cam up against the typical close down and close contact and their initiative grew.

We surrender initiative in a game, too regular for comfort.

I hope we have the nous to address this in the closed season.....and bring in specialist players who have a natural instinct for controlling a game. I think it should be clear to eveyone, the issues, we have.

Getting this right in the summer, will have a significant affect on our progress to date.

Leeds also have a different mentality.

They've been on the receiving end of some real hammerings this season but they have always bounced straight back again. They lost 6-2 to United, that would break a lot of promoted clubs, did not bother them one bit. It's a mentality thing and it's coming from and is instilled from the manager.

There is a lot we can learn from Leeds even if most our fans don't want to hear about it.

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Leeds also have a different mentality.

They've been on the receiving end of some real hammerings this season but they have always bounced straight back again. They lost 6-2 to United, that would break a lot of promoted clubs, did not bother them one bit. It's a mentality thing and it's coming from and is instilled from the manager.

There is a lot we can learn from Leeds even if most our fans don't want to hear about it.

I don't think you can learn mentality, like that....Its more intrinsic.

Its more about choosing players with the Character....No one taught Andy Gray it.....it was in him....its in your DNA.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Icarium said:

I don't think anyone here actually wants Dean to fail. But everyone wants the club to succeed, and so far under Dean we have had an upward trajectory, until the turn of the year.

Old bad habits have come back, and he is being out foxed tactically over and over again. The concern is that the same problems keep coming back.

The question is how much faith people have in his ability to sort out these recurring issues. Some people on here believe he will single handedly lead us to champions league glory with enough time.

Others worry that the slow downward drift of last decade will return.

Personally I think he has done well so far, but needs to show that the the last few months of rubbish football are behind him before the middle of next season. Give him one more summer recruiting window to see what he can do with (hopefully) a more capable midfield 3

good post.

For anyone to want Dean to fail, would be absurd.

However, I have questions, I feel, I would like to hear answered from him, but that is unlikely.

He will do it his way, I just hope it works long term like the season to season improvement has.....but the form this year, worries me....I see the same concerns, in periods of our play, on a regular basis...I hope we can address it.

I have also noticed that the podcasts, who derive their success from positivity, are beginning to yield to the concerns I have.

[vreitti]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Liking a Villa Manager is a bonus and I like Dean......but the whole thing is about results and I want Aston Villa to be associated with good results.

Slightly odd maybe, but as I've grown older, I find myself less and less concerned by the results. Don't get me wrong, I want us to win, but it's not the be-all and end-all, that it used to be in my 20s. I suppose for the time being, I'm just happy as long as we are competitive, likeable and exciting to watch. And for me, we are all those things in abundance, irrespective of recent patchy form. 

[Jas10]

54 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would be staggered to think any discerning fan of Aston Villa wants that....We all want him to succeed, because then we do.

Personally......I have wanted EVERY Aston Villa manager to succeed, irrespective of my personal preferences.

Liking a Villa Manager is a bonus and I like Dean......but the whole thing is about results and I want Aston Villa to be associated with good results.

There are many that appear that way... and they are all over the place.

We have been more patient with much inferior managers who have gone on bad runs and struggled to achieve any form of success with us. At other times, the abuse has been shameful also.

It seems that now we have tasted some success, we are obsessed and desperate to immediately launch ourselves into the stratosphere!

But Dean is in a different class imo (to the likes of Lambert, Garde, Sherwood, Di Matteo, Bruce et al - have we forgotten how many times we had our asses handed to us whenever we played Brentford while Dean was in charge?) and all we have seen is continued success and progress with him.

Looking at the bigger picture (season to season), we have only improved and also improved our standing each season/year. He has performed some minor miracles with us such as going on a record breaking run of results, achieving a highly unlikely promotion (from where we were) and doing it in with style (! what a change from our previous managers!), having to dismantle and rebuild an aging and unfit squad (in terms of quality for the PL) just to put together a team, in such a short space of time, to try and stay in the league (which we managed to achieve, admittedly by the skin of our teeth but he whipped us into shape just in time). And look how much we have kicked on from that since...

Many seem to be overlooking the extenuating circumstances for our poor form and results this year, we were incredible last year. I don’t think many teams suffered such a Covid outbreak within our ranks such as we did (and we don’t know how many players were actually infected, ill, needed recovery time, experienced lasting effects - that information was not disclosed), we lost our talisman and key player to injury who we still heavily rely on, the quality AM that we needed to link up with and support Jack (Barkley) had a complete and utter loss of form. It has been a very disruptive season unlike any other.

We were flying and our wings were clipped...

I can’t recall the last Villa manager that did not have a run of poor form and results. Dean has achieved incredible things with us, we are now capable of giving anyone a game and frightening the big teams at times. We’ve had some amazing results and performances. He has made us resilient in defence and fixed our prior issues also.

I don’t see why some of us are crapping ourselves and laying all the blame and fault at the managers feet when there are other factors to consider and getting so worked up after a loss. Have we forgotten that we defeated Everton recently and actually put in a positive performance? Do the players not warrant our frustration and criticism (not abuse) or should we only blame the manager for everything?

We should stop looking for or thinking about the shortcut or quick fix (there isn’t one and there are no guarantees. Hiring a new manager doesn’t guarantee us anything, it could actually severely set us back and undo all of the hard work and progress). These things take time, Rome wasn’t built in a day as they say. We have constantly been on an upward trajectory and we should be grateful for that, even when there are stumbles along the way (that’s foootball). It’s never an easy or smooth ride.

We will get to where we want to be, have patience and cut out the negativity, forget the past and embrace the new era for this club.

UTV always...

[OxfordVillan]

The 60min mark yesterday was crying out for additional legs and strength, in midfield especially. Ramsey was unfortunately  a passenger against Palaces increased physicality and pressure. The subs to make at that point were to hook Ramsey & Traore, replace with Davis & Nakamba. Go to 4-1-4-1 with Nakamba the covering DM, Davis to the right of the middle 4, ElGhazi left, Luiz and McGinn central. Who knows if it would have worked, but nobody can say we didn’t have options. We did. Sometimes it’s not about pretty football, it’s about matching up individuals to nullify an area you’re struggling in. Doing the dirty work. Not exciting but when you’re 2-1 up away from home you need to start nullifying teams. Or at the very least you TRY to nullify teams. It was a mistake to bring a clearly not match fit Jack Grealish on when he did, and a bigger mistake to then not change anything else until you go 3-2 behind with 5 minutes to play. The palace goals were clearly coming, it’s not like we were putting on a defensive masterclass and they weren’t getting attempts at goal. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Slightly odd maybe, but as I've grown older, I find myself less and less concerned by the results. Don't get me wrong, I want us to win, but it's not the be-all and end-all, that it used to be in my 20s. I suppose for the time being, I'm just happy as long as we are competitive, likeable and exciting to watch. And for me, we are all those things in abundance, irrespective of recent patchy form. 

you and me together...but the form, cannot be dispatched as patchy, its been all year....we have dropped 19 points from winning positions.

Johan Cryuff once said.......

" Quality without results is meaningless, results without quality is boring"

I thinkk, Results are the building block of success it is nigh on unachieveable to claim it without them.

[Jas10]

The solution to our problems is to strengthen the team & squad and we will do it.

I see no reason not to look forward to next season with optimism and positivity.

Atm, we lose a key player and we struggle badly (Cash, Mings, Jack). We would badly struggle without Watkins who really is an exceptional player, both in terms of determination/workrate and talent.

The squad is weak but we will work on it. We did good work in strengthening our first team and were lucky to be able to sign an exceptional goalkeeper which was sorely needed.

I’m sure we will continue to go from strength to strength backed by our excellent owners.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Jas10