Ratings & Reactions: Crystal Palace v Villa

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

It sounds like you’re expecting us to do badly, why is that? As you also mentioned Dean letting us down in your last point...

Why take the negative view?

I don’t think there’s a massive justification for that... we’ve kicked on every season that Dean has been in charge and, yes, you have to spend money to do so too.

The season is long, full of ups and downs. You can’t win every game or perform amazingly in every game - what matters is how you have done overall and where you end up.

We can’t overlook all of the factors (Covid outbreak, Barkleys complete loss of form, Jack being injured for so long).

Before the season began, were we really expecting to do much better than consolidating ourselves in the league and a safe, bottom half finish? Being realistic and sensible.

The start of the season and our amazing results exceeded our expectations but it also raised them massively....

Finishing 10-13th in the end is not so bad really is it? Yes, we (& I) wanted more/better but it has been a crazy season unlike any other.

My advice is just to look forwards with hope and optimism...

He was playing Devils Advocate....and rightly so IMO.

Our poor form has took a shine off the season as a whole and worrying patterns appear.....Your reasons for that could be bonafide, but Allani makes some points worthy of consideration.

We are unlikely to beat Liverpool 7-2 again, so we cannot just rely on our early season form for solace....He makes some good observations IMO.

I don't want Dean Sacked....but equally, I don't want to drift backwards, waiting for a change of fortune to appear, either.

I have seen this club, drift backwards and its not a pretty sight, I will be very surprised if that happens again, because I think these owners are investing too much to let that happen....but once bitten twice shy.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

And one place above us

In their first season, not bad, you know.

above, is above, might as well be 10.

Edited May 16, 2021 by TRO

[villalad21]

Still can't believe we got outplayed by a Roy Hodgson side. 

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

He was playing Devils Advocate....and rightly so IMO.

Our poor form has took a shine off the season as a whole and worrying patterns appear.....Your reasons for that could be bonafide, but Allani makes some points worthy of consideration.

We are unlikely to beat Liverpool 7-2 again, so we cannot just rely on our early season form for solace....He makes some good observations IMO.

I don't want Dean Sacked....but equally, I don't want to drift backwards, waiting for a change of fortune to appear, either.

I have seen this club, drift backwards and its not a pretty sight, I will be very surprised if that happens again, because I think these owners are investing too much to let that happen....but once bitten twice shy.

I must admit Allani makes his points eloquently. I still don't agree that sacking the manager should even be on the table, but fair dues. 

Look we all know the squad needs work. It's blatantly obvious, and to Smith much much more so.

But I also expect this to be addressed, and the precedent is that it will be. In my opinion there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that we would slip backward. There is no precedent for it.   

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Well that’s the thing TRO, it appears that some of us aren’t quite grasping or realising that this is a new era for us with a totally different and much better regime.

The owners are genuine and credible people, they have constantly pumped millions into all areas of the club and it’s obvious that they want us to be as successful as possible. These aren’t shoddy conmen! (Hi there Tony! )
 

Dean is also a very credible manager and coach who has earned his success and shown he has the quality and experience to move us forwards (he’s already been doing it). He is moving forward with us.

 

We have no patience but nothing has even happened yet for us to be negative or pessimistic. We haven’t once gone backwards since he’s been here.

It depends what you mean....season on season no......but within this season we have.

Allani makes a valid point of our form since Xmas, it has gone on for a worrying period, with only a splash of wins here and there....surely you can see that.

Every season there will be challenges, we have to be ready for them.

We are a team that when we are good, we are very good, but when we are bad, we are pants......We have to bring in players to help us bridge that consistency gap and make us more resillient.

[allani]

Because our form has been poor for twice as long as it was good.  As I have said many times if we had finished 11th or 12th but picked up points consistently through the season then I would have been very happy.  I was predicting finishing around 14th.  So on paper we have done much better.  However, when our good form lasted 13 games and our poor form has lasted 26 games - we can't just assume that things will get better.  I hope we do do better next season and that this time next year we are looking back on another improved season.  However, I have been concerned for a long time that Smith's tactical approach is limited and that he is too passive about change - expecting things to pick up - rather than being proactive and trying to make something happen.  This is partly because we play the same system almost every match even when players are injured / out of form and their replacements don't fit that approach, we rarely make substitutions before the 84th minute and we almost never change formation or tactics when Plan A isn't working until we are behind.  The run since January has done little to ease my concerns.  My worry is less about the points, results and more about the performances.  We have made the same mistakes repeatedly through the season.  Several players have seemed to be undroppable regardless of how badly they are playing or how unfit they are.  Our squad is easily better than 6 or 7 other clubs and yet our form since January has been worse than most of those.  All the factors that you mention have affected all our rivals too - they've all had to deal with Covid, injuries to some of their better players, etc.  We can't just hope that next season will be good.  I really hope it is and I really hope that with a strong bench Smith can show that the concerns I have had over the last season and a half are unjustified.  That would make me a happy man.  I don't think that Dean has let us down - my point is that we can't afford to wait until he does before we take action.  My last post was just highlighting that to say that he has not had a stumble is wrong - we had one last season (definitely had a spell when we were playing like we'd already been relegated) and our current form (17th) is another.  He needs to prove that he can take us to a higher position next season.  Being tactically outsmarted by Roy isn't the way to do that.  I don't want to be back in the Championship worrying that this great club might go the way of Sheffield Wednesday, etc because we didn't act quickly enough.  Leicester looked ridiculous sacking Ranieri and yet in hindsight it was absolutely the right decision at the right time.

[Jas10]

41 minutes ago, allani said:

I think our form since the end of the season counts as a bit of a stumble.  At the very least it is a pretty serious wobble.  Our poor run this season has lasted almost twice as long as our good run.

I’m not happy with it but, as I explained, I am speaking in terms of a season by season basis. It’s never a smooth ride and especially not so in this crazy Covid season.

 

I think I’ve more than said my piece on this now, farewell and take care  

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I must admit Allani makes his points eloquently. I still don't agree that sacking the manager should even be on the table, but fair dues. 

Look we all know the squad needs work. It's blatantly obvious, and to Smith much much more so.

But I also expect this to be addressed, and the precedent is that it will be. In my opinion there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that we would slip backward. There is no precedent for it.   

So just to be Devils advocate too.

is the present form since Xmas of being in 17th place in the form league ,not concerning?......Is it reasonable to assume that in the post season review, despite us having a good season, I predicted 12th so ok by me, overall....that question will be broached.

so the 64 million dollar question is, what form will we enter the new season with or likely to enter it with?

just asking?

That question, could be asked, when spending another supposed £100 mill.

[allani]

28 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I’m sorry but If I sacked my employees because I think their performance will drop next year I would be rightly taken to tribunal. 
 

Moreover who the F would want to work for a company that sacks employees for meeting targets?

 

So you are saying that we should make no transfers this summer because we finished higher than we did last season and most of the players did better than the people in their position last season did?  Hmmm... good luck selling your ambitious vision for the future of the club to the likes of Jack, Ollie, etc.

Edited May 16, 2021 by allani

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, allani said:

Because our form has been poor for twice as long as it was good.  As I have said many times if we had finished 11th or 12th but picked up points consistently through the season then I would have been very happy.  I was predicting finishing around 14th.  So on paper we have done much better.  However, when our good form lasted 13 games and our poor form has lasted 26 games - we can't just assume that things will get better.  I hope we do do better next season and that this time next year we are looking back on another improved season.  However, I have been concerned for a long time that Smith's tactical approach is limited and that he is too passive about change - expecting things to pick up - rather than being proactive and trying to make something happen.  This is partly because we play the same system almost every match even when players are injured / out of form and their replacements don't fit that approach, we rarely make substitutions before the 84th minute and we almost never change formation or tactics when Plan A isn't working until we are behind.  The run since January has done little to ease my concerns.  My worry is less about the points, results and more about the performances.  We have made the same mistakes repeatedly through the season.  Several players have seemed to be undroppable regardless of how badly they are playing or how unfit they are.  Our squad is easily better than 6 or 7 other clubs and yet our form since January has been worse than most of those.  All the factors that you mention have affected all our rivals too - they've all had to deal with Covid, injuries to some of their better players, etc.  We can't just hope that next season will be good.  I really hope it is and I really hope that with a strong bench Smith can show that the concerns I have had over the last season and a half are unjustified.  That would make me a happy man.  I don't think that Dean has let us down - my point is that we can't afford to wait until he does before we take action.  My last post was just highlighting that to say that he has not had a stumble is wrong - we had one last season (definitely had a spell when we were playing like we'd already been relegated) and our current form (17th) is another.  He needs to prove that he can take us to a higher position next season.  Being tactically outsmarted by Roy isn't the way to do that.  I don't want to be back in the Championship worrying that this great club might go the way of Sheffield Wednesday, etc because we didn't act quickly enough.  Leicester looked ridiculous sacking Ranieri and yet in hindsight it was absolutely the right decision at the right time.

See your point, but you can't judge someone on performance against a set target, then move that target and criticise them for not meeting it. Target was 12th. Your expectation was 14th. Both met.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

I’m not happy with it but, as I explained, I am speaking in terms of a season by season basis. It’s never a smooth ride and especially not so in this crazy Covid season.

 

I think I’ve more than said my piece on this now, farewell and take care  

but he has a valid point.

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

Rodrigo has made 24 appearances. The exact same number as Jack.

Raphina 28 apps

Costa 22

Harrison 34

 

Harrison and Costa aren't new signings. 

Been at the club for a while 

Rodrigo their big money signing mostly have sub appearances. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by villalad21

[Jas10]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

It depends what you mean....season on season no......but within this season we have.

Allani makes a valid point of our form since Xmas, it has gone on for a worrying period, with only a splash of wins here and there....surely you can see that.

Every season there will be challenges, we have to be ready for them.

We are a team that when we are good, we are very good, but when we are bad, we are pants......We have to bring in players to help us bridge that consistency gap and make us more resillient.

Yes we do, 100%. But we don’t have to sack the manager which is basically all I was referring to.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

See your point, but you can't judge someone on performance against a set target, then move that target and criticise them for not meeting it. Target was 12th. Your expectation was 14th. Both met.

Ok

as an analogy.....you are a car salesman...with an annual target of 120 cars and you just do it........but the incremental breakdown is this,you make a great start and sell 90 in the first 6 months, but then go 6 months selling only 30.....hitting target of 120, phew home and dry....Ah!!

Do you think its reasonable for your Boss to ask questions when setting next years budget?...what is your true form, the first 6 or the second 6?

because I can assure you, they would.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Yes we do, 100%. But we don’t have to sack the manager which is basically all I was referring to.

I don't think anyone is saying that, just asking a few questions.

If I was an owner, I would be asking questions surrounding our form over c 20 odd games...and why the sudden drop.

Dean May have all the answers, and the answers may well satisfy the Owners, to stomp up another exciting window.....But I supect, the form will not be overlooked.

Edited May 17, 2021 by TRO

[HKP90]

Just now, allani said:

So you are saying that we should make no transfers this summer because we finished higher than we did last summer and most of the players did better than the people in their position last season did?  Hmmm... good luck selling your ambitious vision for the future of the club to the likes of Jack, Ollie, etc.

That is absolutely not what I said or implied. 

What message would sacking Dean send to players who have stuck around like Jack? What message does it send to prospective managers? If you act like a mercenary, you get mercenaries. 

No organisation with massive staff turnover is sustainable. You just damage your own resource base. 

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

32 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Still can't believe we got outplayed by a Roy Hodgson side. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54758063

Quote

Eberechi Eze registered his first Crystal Palace goal with a sublime free-kick as Roy Hodgson's side thrashed Leeds United in an entertaining match at Selhurst Park.

4-1. Bielsa out!

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

McGinn is the only decent centre mid at the club tbh. 

It's typical that he has finally found some form, and almost everything around him has turned to crap.

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Ok

as an analogy.....you are a car salesman...with an annual target of 120 cars and you just do it........but the incremental breakdown is this,you make a great start and sell 90 in the first 6 months, but then go 6 months selling only 30.....hitting target of 120, phew home and dry....Ah!!

Do you think its reasonable for your Boss to ask questions when setting next years budget?...what is your true form, the first 6 or the second 6?

because I can assure you, they would.

OK. Would you work for that company?

How long do you think it will last when they sack all their decent salesmen after 6 months, and then have to find replacements. Assuming you hired the best folks you could in the first place (and you would). How long before you get to Options B, C, D etc, who are inept and couldn't sell in 18 months what the first guy did in 6? 

 

[allani]

4 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

See your point, but you can't judge someone on performance against a set target, then move that target and criticise them for not meeting it. Target was 12th. Your expectation was 14th. Both met.

That is why targets are always slightly flawed.  As I said there are ways of us being on the exact same points, goal difference, number of wins, etc - where I would have been absolutely delighted to be where we are.  As you say we are ahead statistically of where I thought we would be.  However, I think you have to consider other factors when assessing performance and on that I think there are questions that need to be addressed.  Ultimately when we look back at the end of the season it will have been a success.  But if we want to continue that success we need to build on the things we've done well and learn from those things that have gone less well.  Hopefully then we'll all be really happy this time next year!  And nice to debate with you!  I'm trying to take some of your confidence and optimism with me!!!!