Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Kiwivillan]

Just now, gwi1890 said:

Agreed another positive is it allowed us time to rest on the ball given that tiredness is starting to become an issue for the players I think last night more so the first half went well.

I saw an FB post that said maybe the way we played was planned to give the players a rest after more intensive Brentford game, like 1 goal was enough and Fulham weren't getting any chances 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

11 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I saw an FB post that said maybe the way we played was planned to give the players a rest after more intensive Brentford game, like 1 goal was enough and Fulham weren't getting any chances 

Hopefully energy conserved for Sunday.

We will need it!

[gwi1890]

17 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I saw an FB post that said maybe the way we played was planned to give the players a rest after more intensive Brentford game, like 1 goal was enough and Fulham weren't getting any chances 

At the end of the day we weren’t going to create chances through transitional play given the way fulham set up, trying to force things would likely have backfired for the most part we were professional and controlled the game.

[Kiwivillan]

19 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

At the end of the day we weren’t going to create chances through transitional play given the way fulham set up, trying to force things would likely have backfired for the most part we were professional and controlled the game.

A podcast was complaining about McManamanamanan commentary saying we were dull and terrible but if was Arsenal would've been described as title winning performance

[gwi1890]

16 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

A podcast was complaining about McManamanamanan commentary saying we were dull and terrible but if was Arsenal would've been described as title winning performance

Maybe , I don’t think McManaman is biased and unbearable as most commentators. I liked how he defended Emery’s first spell here in England saying he worked hard and actually learned the language only to be mocked and called it  disgraceful and the went on mention that most foreign managers have an interpreter for the first three years but that’s all fine and good. 

[DJBOB]

Plenty to go around with individual performances but wanted to highlight three problems that have been slowly growing since Newcastle.

1. Personnel, no squad rotation - because there is no squad rotation, the same XI have started 4 in a row in the same positions and the build up has been predictable for opponents. All of the players play in the same areas and zones and we have not made enough changes in our build up
2. Specific pressing structures - since Newcastle, opponents no longer press us in our penalty area and prefer engaging as we enter the middle third. Their press is focused on trying to shift us to the left and letting Mings pick a pass. While Mings has improved his distribution, they are baiting him to pass it into Ollie or onto Moreno or to try and big switch to McGinn and then forcing a turnover to win the ball with a good transition opportunity. On the other side, they are doing much of the same, forcing it to Young and then pinning Mcginn against the sideline, knowing that McGinn is rarely getting a ball over the top. If Villa get it to Buendia, the opponents have been forcefully swarming Buendia to force a turnover and has been successful because of Buendia’s slow decision making. This is where I believe where we miss Kamara the most. Dendoncker, while a useful recycler, does not have the same carrying and distribution as Kamara - and as a result, our right side attacks are very constrained and dependent on Buendia beating multiple opponents with a dribble (a glaring weak point)
3. Lack of vertical threat- Mcginn, Buendia, and JJ all like to receive ball to feet, turn and try to progress forward. We lack true vertical threats beside Watkins and it showed in contrast to United trying through balls over the top consistently. This lack of vertical threat means opponents are glad to jump on our players backs when receiving the ball and forcing the ref to make constant decisions that won’t always favor us. It is asking a lot out of our midfielders to consistently win these duels. 
    

While some players levels have admittedly dropped off, some of their performance can be directly attributed to lack of rotation and being overly predictable in our build up. Our chances and entries into the final third have dwindled since Newcastle and we definitely need fresh legs and a change in our build up structure for the final 4. 

[IrishVilla10]

13 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Needs to tell Martinez to stop playing it long.

Stick to your principles Unai.

We seriously need to move away from this long ball thing. We conceded the goal and lost the game as a direct consequence  from it.

Doesn’t really make sense at all considering we’ve a lack of height and physicality up top either, easy way to lose possession. Probably isn’t helped by the fact our left side seems to be our only outlet at the minute. Casemiro stopped almost all of our attacking output on Sunday 

[Pinebro]

1 minute ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Doesn’t really make sense at all considering we’ve a lack of height and physicality up top either, easy way to lose possession. Probably isn’t helped by the fact our left side seems to be our only outlet at the minute. Casemiro stopped almost all of our attacking output on Sunday 

When you play it long you give away the initiative of the game which goes against what we're trying to do under Unai which is controlling games.

If Martinez cannot do it then I'm afraid to say it. We need to look for another keeper.

Don't care about his reputation. We need to find players which suits Unais system.

[avfc1982am]

4 hours ago, Pinebro said:

When you play it long you give away the initiative of the game which goes against what we're trying to do under Unai which is controlling games.

If Martinez cannot do it then I'm afraid to say it. We need to look for another keeper.

Don't care about his reputation. We need to find players which suits Unais system.

His distribution has been quality for months. Stop talking out your arse.

The amount of points Martinez has been worth this season and you come out with that drivel. 

[VILLAMARV]

4 hours ago, Pinebro said:

When you play it long you give away the initiative of the game which goes against what we're trying to do under Unai which is controlling games.

If Martinez cannot do it then I'm afraid to say it. We need to look for another keeper.

Don't care about his reputation. We need to find players which suits Unais system.

[sne]

No Kamara means we are not as comfortable on the ball and more vulnerable to pressing so our playing from the back is forced to take less risks and play it longer more often. Donk can't do what Kamara does. Pretty sure that's why we are playing it a bit more long now as Emery has told them to.

Edited May 2, 2023 by sne

[avfc1982am]

35 minutes ago, sne said:

No Kamara means we are not as comfortable on the ball and more vulnerable to pressing so our playing from the back is forced to take less risks and play it longer more often. Donk can't do what Kamara does. Pretty sure that's why we are playing it a bit more long now as Emery has told them to.

Or it might have been due to Utd pressing us as quickly as they did and with a ridiculously soaked surface which by in large created enough problems. The op's idea that Emi's punting it long is somehow attributed to not being good enough with his distribution is mental. Different strokes for different folks comes to mind. Teams will press us high and quick. It's then up to Emi or the back four to be sensible and not create problems when they don't need to. Sometimes going long is the only option. 

If there is one thing nobody can point the finger at Emi for it's his distribution the last few months, short, mid or long range.

As far as Kamara is concerned, well we've got by pretty well without him for what has been our best form of the season, whilst continually playing out from the back so I don't see any major downside in punting it. We just have to be sensible. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by avfc1982am

[sne]

3 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Or it might have been due to Utd pressing us as quickly as they did and with a ridiculously soaked surface which by in large created enough problems. The op's idea that Emi's punting it long is somehow attributed to not being good enough with his distribution is mental. Different strokes for different folks comes to mind. Teams will press us high and quick. It's then up to Emi or the back four to be sensible and not create problems when they don't need to. Sometimes going long is the only option. 

If there is one thing nobody can point the finger at Emi for it's his distribution the last few months, short, mid or long range.

As far as Kamara is concerned, well we've got by pretty well without him for what has been our best form of the season, whilst continually playing out from the back so I don't see any major downside in punting it. We just have to be sensible. 

Me neither. Think it's the smart way to go in some situations.

Fwiw I have no issue with Martinez distribution more than that the goal was unfortunate

[Pinebro]

58 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

His distribution has been quality for months. Stop talking out your arse.

The amount of points Martinez has been worth this season and you come out with that drivel. 

Then why is he constantly hoofing it? I don't get it.

Listen. 

Joe Hart was considered one of the leagues best keepers before Pep arrived. Pep didn't think twice to replace him with a keeper who better suit his system.

By no means am I saying to get rid of Martinez. But if he cannot do what Unai ultimately want from a keeper there's a discussion to be had.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Pinebro

[VILLAMARV]

after the Arsenal game aftermeth I'd hope he's doing what Emery has told him to do!

[avfc1982am]

17 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Then why is he constantly hoofing it? I don't get it.

Listen. 

Joe Hart was considered one of the leagues best keepers before Pep arrived. Pep didn't think twice to replace him with a keeper who better suit his system.

By no means am I saying to get rid of Martinez. But if he cannot do what Unai ultimately want from a keeper there's a discussion to be had.

What do you mean listen? How can I listen to something with no audio? 

He was hoofing it because Utd were pressing high and the surface was shocking. Did you watch the game? playing it short continually was causing us problems. That's why he went long more than previous games with a better surface. It's not rocket science. 

And please.... DO NOT put f****** Hart in the same conversation as Emi Martinez. Your not upgrading on Emi anyway so there is no discussion to be had.   

Edited May 2, 2023 by avfc1982am
Bad behaviour ;)

[Pinebro]

22 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

He was hoofing it because Utd were pressing high and the surface was shocking.

Should we just succumb to them then?

We need to be brave in order to take the next step.

Hoofing it towards Watkins getting eaten alive by Casemiro was the worst thing he could have done.

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, Pinebro said:

Joe Hart was considered one of the leagues best keepers before Pep arrived.

“Perfect. Continued dominating the game. Playing and staying in Iceland's half. England have had two corners... they're causing them problems. It's been the perfect response. You'd think, no problem, start again, keep dominating, keep putting pressure on. The only thing they’ve got is the big boy upfront, Sigurdsson, Sighthorsson”…

Edited May 2, 2023 by sparrow1988

[DJBOB]

4 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Or it might have been due to Utd pressing us as quickly as they did and with a ridiculously soaked surface which by in large created enough problems. The op's idea that Emi's punting it long is somehow attributed to not being good enough with his distribution is mental. Different strokes for different folks comes to mind. Teams will press us high and quick. It's then up to Emi or the back four to be sensible and not create problems when they don't need to. Sometimes going long is the only option. 

If there is one thing nobody can point the finger at Emi for it's his distribution the last few months, short, mid or long range.

As far as Kamara is concerned, well we've got by pretty well without him for what has been our best form of the season, whilst continually playing out from the back so I don't see any major downside in punting it. We just have to be sensible. 

We are missing Kamara's carrying and distribution though. Dendoncker has been useful and will continue to be useful, but our progress and attacking metrics and by eye test have deteriorated since he has been out of the side. He has counterbalanced it with increased defensive presence, but one barnstorming Newcastle game aside - we are stagnating with our progression. Part of that is through fatigue and lack of rotation, but part of it is that we are a less dynamic side with Dendoncker in place for Kamara and partly McGinn in place of Bailey. We lack vertical threat and Dendoncker cannot turn and lose his marker then progress forward as easily as Kamara can. As a result, our attacks are heavily tilted to the left hand side and teams have cottoned onto us now.

I'm sure Unai sees this, but he doesn't have a lot of options to change it. As long as we are stalwart defensively, we can stay in these matches, but we really do need the cavalry of injuries to come in for the last run.

[avfc1982am]

2 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

We are missing Kamara's carrying and distribution though. Dendoncker has been useful and will continue to be useful, but our progress and attacking metrics and by eye test have deteriorated since he has been out of the side. He has counterbalanced it with increased defensive presence, but one barnstorming Newcastle game aside - we are stagnating with our progression. Part of that is through fatigue and lack of rotation, but part of it is that we are a less dynamic side with Dendoncker in place for Kamara and partly McGinn in place of Bailey. We lack vertical threat and Dendoncker cannot turn and lose his marker then progress forward as easily as Kamara can. As a result, our attacks are heavily tilted to the left hand side and teams have cottoned onto us now.

I'm sure Unai sees this, but he doesn't have a lot of options to change it. As long as we are stalwart defensively, we can stay in these matches, but we really do need the cavalry of injuries to come in for the last run.

Good points that I agree with, and nobody is saying Dendoncker is better than Kamara. Regardless though, even with Kamara in the side, there is no evidence to suggest we'd have gone on the 10 game unbeaten run or bettered it. It's all hypothetical now. Dendoncker has done really well, although as you say is limited in his movement.

I think we can all see the deficiencies in the squad though(at least most can) and can probably agree that the unbeaten run coincided with us being much more clinical rather than being anywhere near the finished product. Like you say as long as we can stay strong defensively we'll always have a chance. I just think we're running on empty now, teams are probably paying more attention to us tactically and the lack of options to switch it up is a problem. I'm not sure those returning from injury we'll be in good enough shape anyway, it's a bit late now tbh. I just hope we can hold it together for another couple of weeks and get over the line in good order. This summer needs to be big though.