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Team shape, tactics and personnel


MaVilla

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1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

It didn't factor in passion or getting stuck in.

you have some front, coming out with that.....and wondering why folk respond adversely.

people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.

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1 hour ago, daft said:

 

Well, according to that table we are taller than Bournemouth. 

Average height is not the issue....height in crucial situations, relating to marking is.

 

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Right now, its hard to see past your comments.....but up until I Jan 2022, folk would have laughed at that.

Something has happened, since the last Window.

Yes, as SG said that was a mini preseason for him in that January.  First time he could get his ideas into those players.  Since then we have been poor! 🤔

Edited by nick76
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14 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Not true. McGinn shouldn't be present in there, Luiz should be a regular in there. His strength is keeping the ball, and he can do that in tight spaces.

McGinn is very important to our ball progression which was shown in his sky high stats in that department last season. Luiz is also very capable and in an 8 position he should do well this season. 

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26 minutes ago, TRO said:

Average height is not the issue....height in crucial situations, relating to marking is.

 

Indeed. It was general poor defending that cost us more than height to be fair.

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15 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

McGinn is very important to our ball progression which was shown in his sky high stats in that department last season. Luiz is also very capable and in an 8 position he should do well this season. 

Luiz is in the 34th percentile in progressive passer per 90 and 41st in progressive carries per 90. McGinn is 76th and 49th respectively. Granted, that is compared to all the top 5 European leagues, not just the Premier League.

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15 minutes ago, daft said:

Luiz is in the 34th percentile in progressive passer per 90 and 41st in progressive carries per 90. McGinn is 76th and 49th respectively. Granted, that is compared to all the top 5 European leagues, not just the Premier League.

You can check the PL option in fbref. No player outside of top 6 had as much ball progression as McGinnin PL last season. Also his share of the overall teams ball progression was the highest in the league.

So basically he is one of best ball progressors and he's doing the majority of it himself for Villa. We just focus on his poor short passing and him getting caught in possession.

We really need someone else in there to help progress the ball. Luiz can be given the chance to do that at 8. He wasn't going to be doing that at 6 last season. We do need a new signing though to chip in with this though 

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Just now, CVByrne said:

You can check the PL option in fbref. No player outside of top 6 had as much ball progression as McGinnin PL last season. Also his share of the overall teams ball progression was the highest in the league.

So basically he is one of best ball progressors and he's doing the majority of it himself for Villa. We just focus on his poor short passing and him getting caught in possession.

We really need someone else in there to help progress the ball. Luiz can be given the chance to do that at 8. He wasn't going to be doing that at 6 last season. We do need a new signing though to chip in with this though 

Fully agreed. And an anchor for the massive hole in midfield. 

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I feel his future hinges on him changing how we set up. We need to change the midfield set up, tweak the full backs and play two up top. 

We need one box to box 8 and two more defensive minded so Luiz and Kamara are must starts with our current squad. 

We need Watkins and Ings up top to provide a goal threat one or the other are too limited for various reasons without goal scoring inside forwards flanking them. 

McGinn needs to start on left side of Midfield 3 and if Ramsey starts it's to be on the right. One of them is the box to box to get into the forward line. 

Gerrard has a philosophy which doesn't work for a mid table Premier League team. 

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40 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Image

I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them.
Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward.

Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us.

Wakey wakey, Villa. 

Yeah absolutely. Most other teams appear to move up and down the pitch as a unit, but we just don't do that. Huge gaps everywhere. 

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42 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Image

I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them.
Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward.

Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us.

Wakey wakey, Villa. 

 

Pay attention to every time the ball goes to a full back. It often looks like this - however Digne does a good job on the left to progress play when he receives it here or recycle it.

If you think about pressing structures they often want the ball to go to the fullback or out to either side to trigger a press (using the sideline as an extra man). We do it to teams all game. However we often end up in the same position due to a what appears to be a weak midfield.

 

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53 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Image

I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them.
Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward.

Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us.

Wakey wakey, Villa. 

Where do you expect them to be when playing against a 10-man low block ?

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51 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Image

I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them.
Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward.

Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us.

Wakey wakey, Villa. 

It's the players that will be thrown under the buss (and rightly so sometimes) but the tactic is flawed and no player however tall, aggressive, or fast is going to fix it.

Said it when we signed Kamara he's going to be dismissed as not good enough for the PL because the job is impossible 

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1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

Image

I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them.
Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward.

Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us.

Wakey wakey, Villa. 

HOOF ball I thought was only a Mings thing, percentage Pulis ball stuff that the guy behind Bailey will win the 2nd ball

Is it McGinn behind Bailey, whoever it is has zero tactical awareness of football

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25 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

Where do you expect them to be when playing against a 10-man low block ?

I think the last thing you want to do against a team defending like that is, to have players hiding and going in to bloated areas. youd expect and want your midfielders to offer options and progress the ball forwards, in to dangerous areas on the pitch, not just hoof it and hope for the best

Edited by Chicken Field
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Just now, Chicken Field said:

I think the last thing you want to do against a team defending like that is, for players to hide, youd expect and want your midfielders to offer options and progress the ball forwards, in to dangerous areas on the pitch, not just hoof it and hope for the best

I think you need to try and create overloads in key areas, drawing some of their defenders out with movement to create space.

The first we can at least try to do, the second I don't think we have the players for, which could explain why we suddenly tried lifted crosses instead of low cut-backs from closer to goal, created by overloads out wide or in the half-spaces.

Just some thoughts.

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9 minutes ago, daft said:

I think you need to try and create overloads in key areas, drawing some of their defenders out with movement to create space.

The first we can at least try to do, the second I don't think we have the players for, which could explain why we suddenly tried lifted crosses instead of low cut-backs from closer to goal, created by overloads out wide or in the half-spaces.

Just some thoughts.

Ding Ding Ding

However on the first point - Gerrard system involves overloading wide space using fullbacks which we definitely try to do. The contention is where is it breaking down and why. I am unconvinced it is all Gerrard or all the players as I have seen convincing evidence and arguments that things aren't working in more than one area. However, the midfield does appear to be a particular problem. 

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