Ollie Watkins

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, roonst83 said:

The tap-in for our first against Liverpool? 

Was it the second ?

[roonst83]

5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Was it the second ?

His better finish was the second, yeah. But I'm only jokingly being pedantic. I like Ollie. He has had moments where he's scored a few nice goal, but I just feel he lacks pure natural finesse and ability with his finishing. But all credit for him working on his finishing away from Pre-season. Can't knock that.

[sheepyvillian]

18 hours ago, roonst83 said:

His better finish was the second, yeah. But I'm only jokingly being pedantic. I like Ollie. He has had moments where he's scored a few nice goal, but I just feel he lacks pure natural finesse and ability with his finishing. But all credit for him working on his finishing away from Pre-season. Can't knock that.

Totally agree with all that. I was just saying how some great strikers from the past seemed to have a natural instinct for being in the right place and I really don't think it's a quality that can be teached, especially at the age Watkins is. If he did have that asset to his game he'd be one hell of a player. 

He does come across as a idecent lad, you could argue that maybe he's too nice, but, then again, he has been known to put in the odd, dodgy challenge when he gets frustrated, which was quite often last season. 

Let's see  if a full pre - season with SG and the coaching staff's encouragement in his ear brings some improvement to his game, as you said, he's eager to enhance his skills, hopefully that desire, commitment and hard work will be rewarded and he can contribute at least 20 goals for the season. How we could do with a striker who provides that consistently. If we're going to reach the next level, that is exactly what we will need. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by sheepyvillian

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

hopefully that desire, commitment and hard work will be rewarded and he can contribute, at least, 20 goals for the season

This’d be lovely but pretty unlikely in the modern game. Only Son and Salah did it last season. 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

This’d be lovely but pretty unlikely in the modern game. Only Son and Salah did it last season. 

And that's why Spurs and Liverpool are where they are, which was my point. 

[MrBlack]

14 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

And that's why Spurs and Liverpool are where they are, which was my point. 

Cause and effect... is it really why they are where they are,  or are their forwards scoring 20 because they are part of a team that is finishing top 4. For spurs, I'd agree with you, but for Liverpool, not so much

Looking at Man City, they don't have a 20 a season scorer but won the league so trying to assign the cause and the effect isn't as clear cut as you'd expect.

Salah, like Ings, also missed a lot of chances last season. But he got so many chances playing for Liverpool, that he still got 20. Even scoring some worldies that were probably 0.1xg, he still missed his xg target by 1.4. I reckon they could play Ings in his place and Ings would score 20. Watkins, might, but would get close.

Son would probably score 20 anywhere, but his understanding with Kane helps him a lot. Spurs would admittedly be much further down without either one of them.  He massively exceed his xg, and virtually never seem to miss. Put Watkins or Ings there and I don't think either of them are hitting 20, and spurs are further down the league as a result.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by MrBlack

[sheepyvillian]

5 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Cause and effect... is it really why they are where they are,  or are their forwards scoring 20 because they are part of a team that is finishing top 4. For spurs, I'd agree with you, but for Liverpool, not so much

Looking at Man City, they don't have a 20 a season scorer but won the league so trying to assign the cause and the effect isn't as clear cut as you'd expect.

Salah, like Ings, also missed a lot of chances last season. But he got so many chances playing for Liverpool, that he still got 20. Even scoring some worldies that were probably 0.1xg, he still missed his xg target by 1.4. I reckon they could play Ings in his place and Ings would score 20. Watkins, might, but would get close.

Son would probably score 20 anywhere, but his understanding with Kane helps him a lot. Spurs would admittedly be much further down without either one of them.  He massively exceed his xg, and virtually never seem to miss. Put Watkins or Ings there and I don't think either of them are hitting 20, and spurs are further down the league as a result.

 

There you go. If you've got a striker that can get you near enough 20 goals a season, you're going to have half a chance, hence Citeh buying the Norwegian lad. Can Watkins or Ings be that prolific, probably not, but it sure would make a difference if they could. That's my point. Why or how they score them doesn't matter, the fact remains, if you have a striker of that ilk, you have half a chance. Benteke scored 18 in one season for us and we were a pretty, average side then. 

[MrBlack]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

There you go. If you've got a striker that can get you near enough 20 goals a season, you're going to have half a chance, hence Citeh buying the Norwegian lad. Can Watkins or Ings be that prolific, probably not, but it sure would make a difference if they could. That's my point. Why or how they score them doesn't matter, the fact remains, if you have a striker of that ilk, you have half a chance. Benteke scored 18 in one season for us and we were a pretty, average side then. 

But the fact remains we didn't create many chances last year. Neither Ings nor Watkins were significantly behind on their xgs tally, but as a team we were relatively low on big chances created (43, Compared with 84 for Spurs and 93 for Liverpool). This was due to us not having a very solid base to build from.

With a better base (not saying we're there yet, but it's definitely better than last year), we may find one of them able to get 20, or both of them able to get 14+. Ings has already proved he can get 20 in the right team. He only played half a season for us and managed to get 7 despite the aforementioned limited chance creation.

City buying Haaland was just them replacing Aguero when the best forward on the planet became available.

 

Back on topic: Watkins can definitely score 15, and that's all most strikers in the prem seem to score these days. I'd back him to get 20 if he was our lone striker this season, but sharing the duty with Ings I think he'll possibly hit 15.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

But the fact remains we didn't create many chances last year. Neither Ings nor Watkins were significantly behind on their xgs tally, but as a team we were relatively low on big chances created (43, Compared with 84 for Spurs and 93 for Liverpool). This was due to us not having a very solid base to build from.

With a better base (not saying we're there yet, but it's definitely better than last year), we may find one of them able to get 20, or both of them able to get 14+. Ings has already proved he can get 20 in the right team. He only played half a season for us and managed to get 7 despite the aforementioned limited chance creation.

City buying Haaland was just them replacing Aguero when the best forward on the planet became available.

 

Back on topic: Watkins can definitely score 15, and that's all most strikers in the prem seem to score these days. I'd back him to get 20 if he was our lone striker this season, but sharing the duty with Ings I think he'll possibly hit 15.

City buying Halland was them saying we need a striker whose prolific, someone who can capitalise on all the many chances they create. If he adapts to the Premier League like he did the Bundesliga, it's a frightening thought. May the false 9 rest in peace. 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

1 minute ago, sheepyvillian said:

City buying Halland was them saying we need a striker whose prolific, someone who can capitalise on all the many chances they create. If he adapts to the Premier League like he did the Bundesliga, it's a frightening thought. May the false 9 rest in peace. 

Amen.

[MrBlack]

They only played a false 9 because they didn't have Aguero, and spurs priced them out of any sensible move for Kane. There wasn't anyone else they thought would be worth buying, so they adapted. They knew Haaland would be available this summer and they're much better off for having waited.

Watkins is of course not anywhere near that quality, but he's shown glimpses of being a quality striker the season before last, and was truly prolific in the championship, scoring all sorts of goals... 

Quote

Every single one of his 26 came from open play and when you exclude penalties, Watkins scored more league goals than any other player in English football last season.

16 were scored from inside the penalty area, eight from inside the six-yard box, with two coming from long-range and as well as being able to score from any distance, Watkins is more than capable with both feet.

A record of 10 with his right foot, seven with his left foot and eight with his head illustrates his all-round quality.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Is it just me, or does he look extra lean and ripped in the new training images?

So either he's been working extra hard over the summer, or he's a crackhead.

* He's obviously not a crackhead.

 

[sheepyvillian]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Is it just me, or does he look extra lean and ripped in the new training images?

So either he's been working extra hard over the summer, or he's a crackhead.

* He's obviously not a crackhead.

 

He's definitely not a crackhead, I'd know him if he was.

[Anything11]

Vintage Watkins today. Didn't look convincing at all.

[Dodgyknees]

On 05/07/2022 at 17:48, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Is it just me, or does he look extra lean and ripped in the new training images?

So either he's been working extra hard over the summer, or he's a crackhead.

* He's obviously not a crackhead.

 

Aha thank god this is here, just watching the Walsall highlights and I keep seeing Ollie and thinking he’s looking in really good shape. Exciting. Maybe he’s one that SG was talking about with the good return numbers for fitness. Let’s hope we see more of the best version of OW this season. 

[Vancvillan]

On 03/07/2022 at 12:17, DaveAV1 said:

Maguire + £100m for Ollie?

Or just $80m if they keep Maguire.

[MaVilla]

On 11/07/2022 at 14:47, Dodgyknees said:

Aha thank god this is here, just watching the Walsall highlights and I keep seeing Ollie and thinking he’s looking in really good shape. Exciting. Maybe he’s one that SG was talking about with the good return numbers for fitness. Let’s hope we see more of the best version of OW this season. 

I don't think watkins fitness has ever been an issue.

It's his finesse, vision, touch and finishing that are the issues.

[Zatman]

On 10/07/2022 at 01:20, Anything11 said:

Vintage Watkins today. Didn't look convincing at all.

didnt he score plus was his first game in 2 months

[Steero113]

On 10/07/2022 at 01:20, Anything11 said:

Vintage Watkins today. Didn't look convincing at all.

Vintage Villatalker on Watkins today, convinced he wasn't looking at all. 

[TRO]

On 04/07/2022 at 12:31, sheepyvillian said:

Totally agree with all that. I was just saying how some great strikers from the past seemed to have a natural instinct for being in the right place and I really don't think it's a quality that can be teached, especially at the age Watkins is. If he did have that asset to his game he'd be one hell of a player. 

He does come across as a idecent lad, you could argue that maybe he's too nice, but, then again, he has been known to put in the odd, dodgy challenge when he gets frustrated, which was quite often last season. 

Let's see  if a full pre - season with SG and the coaching staff's encouragement in his ear brings some improvement to his game, as you said, he's eager to enhance his skills, hopefully that desire, commitment and hard work will be rewarded and he can contribute at least 20 goals for the season. How we could do with a striker who provides that consistently. If we're going to reach the next level, that is exactly what we will need. 

I kinda get that impression too.

I think he needs to be a tad more aggressive with himself, and his self belief will improve.

as someone who was close to Andy Gray, during his time with us......I don't see that same aggression in him ,as Andy had.....Ollie is easily as good a player,in many ways,  if not better.......but Andy was brave and had the "eye of the Tiger" as did Peter Withe too.....They both HAD to score....thats what they told themselves......Andy Gray believed he would score in every game he played, that's what he drummed in to himself.....I would guess Peter was the same.

Ollie needs to work on his ability to disrupt, aggravate, and be more objective about scoring.....He has the skill set, needs the mind set.

Lets be honest, its one of the hardest and most arduous positions to play.

However, like you, I really like the boy.