Summer Transfers Window 2020

[SeanVilla]

1 minute ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

This proves my point. Our scoring dropped from 1.22 per game to 0.7 per game post lockdown. In other words, we played more defensively, meaning we conceded fewer, but also scored significantly fewer. If we had better defenders we wouldn't need to play as defensively, and we'd score more while conceding fewer. 

Again, we obviously need a good striker/winger, but to push on and keep players like Jack, we also need some better defenders

Problem is you're looking at scoring stat and not attacking stats. El Ghazi missed 2 absolute sitters against Everton and someone else. Davis missed an easy chance 1-on-1 against Arsenal. and there was more as well. They go in and that's your difference.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

1.22 goals scored per game pre-lockdown, 0.7 per game post-lockdown. Almost halved. We had largely the same personnel for both samples. How is that a myth?

So many variables involved. How can you possibly say its all because we went ultra defensive. 

We clearly changed the way we played, but we didn't just stick 10 men behind the ball and never look to attack. 

This argument has gone from the opposition didn't give a shit to some extreme mcleish style of football we played. 

Ridiculous. 

Let's see where we spend the majority of our money then. My guess is the attacking third. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by DCJonah

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, SeanVilla said:

Problem is you're looking at scoring stat and not attacking stats. El Ghazi missed 2 absolute sitters against Everton and someone else. Davis missed an easy chance 1-on-1 against Arsenal. and there was more as well. They go in and that's your difference.

Exactly. 

[Mat Kendrick's Dentist]

14 minutes ago, Rolta said:

Any chance we could get that stat divided up a bit more. So Goals for/against up to and including the Burnley game, then the same after the Burnley game to lockdown, then post lockdown.

1.28 up to/including Burnley/1.22/0.7

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Really? Our attack was great before lockdown? 

Do you think our attack suffered because we had samatta and davis playing with little quality out wide, or is it just that we went ultra defensive?

Its a myth that seems to be now accepted. Its rubbish.

• It was better, but not great......we are not great in any department.
• possibly, possibly that too.....but we didn't go ULTRA defensive at all.
• its not a myth at all, its a view......Dean himself admitted he was naive before lockdown, bully for him, for his honesty

[skarroki]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Really? Our attack was great before lockdown? 

Do you think our attack suffered because we had samatta and davis playing with little quality out wide, or is it just that we went ultra defensive?

Its a myth that seems to be now accepted. Its rubbish.

Exactly. The first thing I thought when I saw this discussion was "what attack". 

For our attacking to suffer we would have to have had attacking players doing less. Grealish could do what he was doing pre-lockdown, the rest weren't doing anything of note anyway so difficult to really see if the changes impacted. 

It certainly didn't remove any potency. There wasn't any. And it improved our shape ten fold. I would say team shape and improvements in fitness had more to do with our late run than playing Bruceball

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, skarroki said:

Exactly. The first thing I thought when I saw this discussion was "what attack". 

For our attacking to suffer we would have to have had attacking players doing less. Grealish could do what he was doing pre-lockdown, the rest weren't doing anything of note anyway so difficult to really see if the changes impacted. 

It certainly didn't remove any potency. There wasn't any. And it improved our shape ten fold. I would say team shape and improvements in fitness had more to do with our late run than playing Bruceball

yep. 

The idea we were some free flowing attacking team and we had to curb all that is nonsense. 

In our 'ultra defensive' football trezeguet finally found some goal scoring form. Go figure.

Edited August 27, 2020 by DCJonah

[useless]

This what John Percy wrote a few weeks back...

'Manager Dean Smith will target players in attacking areas, plus a central midfielder, a right-back and possibly another centre-half '

And that's pretty much what I expect to happen.

[Philosopher]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Really? Our attack was great before lockdown? 

Do you think our attack suffered because we had samatta and davis playing with little quality out wide, or is it just that we went ultra defensive?

Its a myth that seems to be now accepted. Its rubbish.

Personally I think only 4 outfield players are worth their spot in the first team and 3 of those either are playing in Central midfield or would like to be. Only one is a defender. So for me there are 6 positions that need to be addressed 3 in attack and 3 in defence. 

Konsa and Targett did OK, but for me have weak points which may mean they never can be considered quality for their position. Targett has a lack of pace and agility which is vital if you have to fend off quick skillful wingers. Konsa is weak in the air for a CB and lacks a bit of body strength.  Engels has the turning circle of a bus with the acceleration to match, which is why he is the human bus!

 

[useless]

Repeat post I'll add something new to this one in a while.

And possibly a goalkeeper, and a new back up left-back, although if the new right-back can also play left-back than probably won't be seen as urgent.

Edited August 27, 2020 by useless

[Mat Kendrick's Dentist]

17 minutes ago, SeanVilla said:

Problem is you're looking at scoring stat and not attacking stats. El Ghazi missed 2 absolute sitters against Everton and someone else. Davis missed an easy chance 1-on-1 against Arsenal. and there was more as well. They go in and that's your difference.

You can pick out anecdotal misses for any part of the season. In our last 10 games our expected goals = 1. In our first 10 games our expected goals = 1.72

[Mat Kendrick's Dentist]

13 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Personally I think only 4 outfield players are worth their spot in the first team and 3 of those either are playing in Central midfield or would like to be. Only one is a defender. So for me there are 6 positions that need to be addressed 3 in attack and 3 in defence. 

Konsa and Targett did OK, but for me have weak points which may mean they never can be considered quality for their position. Targett has a lack of pace and agility which is vital if you have to fend off quick skillful wingers. Konsa is weak in the air for a CB and lacks a bit of body strength.  Engels has the turning circle of a bus with the acceleration to match, which is why he is the human bus!

 

Agree with every word

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Personally I think only 4 outfield players are worth their spot in the first team and 3 of those either are playing in Central midfield or would like to be. Only one is a defender. So for me there are 6 positions that need to be addressed 3 in attack and 3 in defence. 

Konsa and Targett did OK, but for me have weak points which may mean they never can be considered quality for their position. Targett has a lack of pace and agility which is vital if you have to fend off quick skillful wingers. Konsa is weak in the air for a CB and lacks a bit of body strength.  Engels has the turning circle of a bus with the acceleration to match, which is why he is the human bus!

 

Eventually we will try and improve in lots of positions. 

But for me, I was talking about priority for this summer and IMO that has to be out wide and up front. 

As we continue to improve and progress I agree, there are others who need to be improved upon. 

[Dave-R]

10 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

This proves my point. Our scoring dropped from 1.22 per game to 0.7 per game post lockdown. In other words, we played more defensively, meaning we conceded fewer, but also scored significantly fewer. If we had better defenders we wouldn't need to play as defensively, and we'd score more while conceding fewer. 

Again, we obviously need a good striker/winger, but to push on and keep players like Jack, we also need some better defenders

You see what alot of you have gone and done now, you've gone and woke and bloody well forced the mathematicians and space engineers out of slumber for the rest of the day.

Now watch its numbers time everyone.

[nepal_villan]

6 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Personally I think only 4 outfield players are worth their spot in the first team and 3 of those either are playing in Central midfield or would like to be. Only one is a defender. So for me there are 6 positions that need to be addressed 3 in attack and 3 in defence. 

Konsa and Targett did OK, but for me have weak points which may mean they never can be considered quality for their position. Targett has a lack of pace and agility which is vital if you have to fend off quick skillful wingers. Konsa is weak in the air for a CB and lacks a bit of body strength.  Engels has the turning circle of a bus with the acceleration to match, which is why he is the human bus!

 

You are fast forwarding to a top 6 side. Let's start by safely avoiding relegation. 

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

You can pick out anecdotal misses for any part of the season. In our last 10 games our expected goals = 1. In our first 10 games our expected goals = 1.72

What was our expected goals the previous 10 league games before lockdown?

[SeanVilla]

4 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

You can pick out anecdotal misses for any part of the season. In our last 10 games our expected goals = 1. In our first 10 games our expected goals = 1.72

Fair enough, I'm never gonna convince you and you won't convince me. I'd rather play the way we had the 4th best defence in the league and improve our attack (in the transfer window) than play the way we did at the start and improve our defence to try combat the ridiculous amount of shots we were conceding per game. If you are keen to strengthen a decent amount at the back, I think you may be disappointed come the start of the season. 

[Dave-R]

7 minutes ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

You can pick out anecdotal misses for any part of the season. In our last 10 games our expected goals = 1. In our first 10 games our expected goals = 1.72

I dont know what's worse no signings or knowing its maths day again for a full day today on VT, you see what you people caused again with talking about defence and goals leaked.

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, Mat Kendrick's Dentist said:

I couldn't agree more that we need to upgrade our striker/winger, and I said as much in my earlier post. That said, we had the 13th best attack in the league (11th pre-lockdown), and the 19th best defence. Yet most seem to think defensive improvements aren't needed!

Defence is more of a structural issue although better individauls obviously help. Improvements in defence are a lot easier to achieve with a change in system as we saw post lockdown. We conceded the most shots on target per game before the break (5.64) and (conceded) the third fewest on target per game (2.60) after lockdown. Same individuals - better defence through a system change.

Improvements in attack are more difficult to achieve through systematic changes as higher quality players are required to break down defences. I think that is the reason that some people think our attack needs improving before our defence.

Edited August 27, 2020 by sparrow1988
clarity of first post

[Follyfoot]

16 minutes ago, useless said:

This what John Percy wrote a few weeks back...

'Manager Dean Smith will target players in attacking areas, plus a central midfielder, a right-back and possibly another centre-half '

And that's pretty much what I expect to happen.

somewhat more refreshing than the 4/5 right backs of previous regimes