nick76 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, choffer said: It was interesting that the PM was asked about the science behind the decision this afternoon and completely fudged the answer. From memory he basically said that everyone's seen the science. I'd love to hear a take on the decision from Whitty or JVT. He didn’t have an answer, this is just a distraction to try and save his job. I doubt this would’ve been done now otherwise. Edited January 19, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, markavfc40 said: Back to normal aside from the tens of thousands getting ill from covid, the thousands ending up in hospital and the hundreds a day dying or ending up suffering with long covid. Lifting all restrictions with it still so rampant seems irresponsible but opportunistic given Johnsons current woes. Not sure what else we can do though mark? As much as i dont like bozo he has a point we have to live with this horrible virus. We cant keep living like this. Its having a massive effect on peoples mental health. As long as the data isnt giving huge death tolls then thats wherw actikn needs to be addtessed. If you think about it more people have been out, people mixing indoors and out. Mass events like football matches, concerts etc have been going on for a while now and the deaths are slowing down. Also remember a key thing, you can still wear masks if you like even if others choose not to. Edited January 20, 2022 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 20, 2022 17 hours ago, choffer said: I'd love to hear a take on the decision from Whitty or JVT. Well now JVT's walked, he may feel free to comment from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Not sure what else we can do though mark? As much as i dont like bozo he has a point we have to live with this horrible virus. We cant keep living like this. Its having a massive effect on peoples mental health. As long as the data isnt giving huge death tolls then thats wherw actikn needs to be addtessed. Average of 400 deaths in the last two days, the highest in over 10 months doesn’t sound like a good time to reduce restrictions to me. Yeah I understand peoples mental health but peoples mental health doesn’t trump highest death counts in almost a year. Boris is just trying not to lose his job so trying to distract. We have to live with this virus at some time but now, at this point, looks wrong. Another month, once the weather warms up a bit, which we know it makes a difference on viruses plus waiting for the deaths to decline, would seem better to review and then reduce. Doing it now when deaths are higher, obviously points to Boris trying to get out of a bind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, nick76 said: Average of 400 deaths in the last two days, the highest in over 10 months doesn’t sound like a good time to reduce restrictions to me. Yeah I understand peoples mental health but peoples mental health doesn’t trump highest death counts in almost a year. Boris is just trying not to lose his job so trying to distract. We have to live with this virus at some time but now, at this point, looks wrong. Another month, once the weather warms up a bit, which we know it makes a difference on viruses plus waiting for the deaths to decline, would seem better to review and then reduce. Doing it now when deaths are higher, obviously points to Boris trying to get out of a bind. It does though when people are having suicidal thoughts though nick. A majority of the population is vaccinated now. Weather wont warm up until april sort of time so i think thats a lot to ask. Lets be hinest anyway alot of people havent been following the rules anyway. On the tube about half the people dont wear masks. Supermarkets its even less in my area. I mean people can still wear masks even if they want to not stopping them. And i agree about last sentence boris is doing thsi for boris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Average of 400 deaths in the last two days, the highest in over 10 months doesn’t sound like a good time to reduce restrictions to me. Yeah I understand peoples mental health but peoples mental health doesn’t trump highest death counts in almost a year. Boris is just trying not to lose his job so trying to distract. We have to live with this virus at some time but now, at this point, looks wrong. Another month, once the weather warms up a bit, which we know it makes a difference on viruses plus waiting for the deaths to decline, would seem better to review and then reduce. Doing it now when deaths are higher, obviously points to Boris trying to get out of a bind. Of course he is. Same with suddenly lifting plan B measures. I almost gurantee as March nears it'll be 'oh, we've looked at the data and it suggests we shouldn't end isolation periods at this time We'll re-assess in a couple of months'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2022 42 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: It does though when people are having suicidal thoughts though I'd suggest that if people are having suicidal thoughts it isn't because they've been asked to wear a mask in indoor public settings 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: It does though when people are having suicidal thoughts though nick. A majority of the population is vaccinated now. I fully appreciate that people are having suicidal thoughts but people are actually dying from Covid at ~400 a day that’s equivalent to just under 3,000 a week. We need to give those with suicidal thoughts all the help we can that’s obvious but that doesn’t mean to help them with their mental health means we sacrifice people actually dying and we know when all restrictions are taken off that deaths initially will increase. I just don’t see how actual deaths are sacrificed for mental health. 40 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Lets be hinest anyway alot of people havent been following the rules anyway. On the tube about half the people dont wear masks. So your suggestion is to cater to the people not following the rules than the people who are. Imagine if we did that in anything else in life, any other restrictions we have legal or non-legal? We just don’t in society do we, but in this case of people dying at higher rate of covid than in any time in the last 10 months we should relax the restrictions because some people don’t follow the rules. It doesn’t make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 37 minutes ago, MCU said: Of course he is. Same with suddenly lifting plan B measures. I almost gurantee as March nears it'll be 'oh, we've looked at the data and it suggests we shouldn't end isolation periods at this time We'll re-assess in a couple of months'. He’ll end isolation periods when he’s in his next bind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Back in the 80s, hooligans, trendies, casuals, whatever you local area called them, they used to don a scarf wrapped round the lower part of their face. Seems that generation grew up and said I can't be muzzled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, nick76 said: I fully appreciate that people are having suicidal thoughts but people are actually dying from Covid at ~400 a day that’s equivalent to just under 3,000 a week. We need to give those with suicidal thoughts all the help we can that’s obvious but that doesn’t mean to help them with their mental health means we sacrifice people actually dying and we know when all restrictions are taken off that deaths initially will increase. I just don’t see how actual deaths are sacrificed for mental health. So your suggestion is to cater to the people not following the rules than the people who are. Imagine if we did that in anything else in life, any other restrictions we have legal or non-legal? We just don’t in society do we, but in this case of people dying at higher rate of covid than in any time in the last 10 months we should relax the restrictions because some people don’t follow the rules. It doesn’t make sense. From the 400 people dying whats the data on these? Im genuinely asking as before it was being reported the people dying were eldery, or had health conditions. They dont seem to be telling us what the circumstances of the deaths are. Nick also ive known people have died over the lockdowns due to mental health. Have these numbers ever been reported? Im not suggesting anything i think your putting words in my mouth nick. All im saying is its time to start living with the virus for the earlier reason stated ( a extra 4 weeks as you suggested i dont think will make that much difference. Even if it does then what happens after the next four weeks,or the time after that. ) like i said people can still wear masks if they want if they want to be extra safe. If you do that had your two jabs and the booster you should have enough protection as the science tells us Edited January 20, 2022 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I fully appreciate that people are having suicidal thoughts but people are actually dying from Covid at ~400 a day that’s equivalent to just under 3,000 a week. It doesn’t make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Demitri_C said: From the 400 people dying whats the data on these? Im genuinely asking as before it was being reported the people dying were eldery, or had health conditions. They dont seem to be telling us what the circumstances of the deaths are. Seriously? Now heading towards conspiracy theory territory or worse that it’s people that are old or ill anyway! I’m done with this part of the discussion. 3 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Nick also ive known people have died over the lockdowns due to mental health. I’ve known people that have died from Covid over the lockdowns and general pandemic period. Added to that my sister-in-law returned to work after New Years. She suffers severe stress related anxiety but manages really well 95% of the time on medication that controls it. After returning to work, she got Covid in the first week, got really sick and the stress increased the anxiety. The Covid impact to her increased her anxiety so much so thought she was going to die, causing sickness and breathing problems that we had to call an ambulance and she was in hospital for a couple of days. She is now home resting with additional medication. It wasn’t registered as anything to do with Covid but a mental health issue. So people are suffering mental health issues not only under lockdown but when returning to work, contracting Covid. Mental health issues are not just under lockdown is my point, mental health is mental health and can cause issues for people worrying about getting the virus and many other circumstances, not just lockdown. But to sacrifice actual deaths just to open up a bit…. Then talking about lockdown? We aren’t in lockdown, we are nothing like lockdown are we? we are under just a few restrictions. We aren’t confined to our homes or anything like it so I’m not sure your point is valid. Just feels like some people want to be selfish! Edited January 20, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: But that’s old data now even if correct, I don’t know the guy. Even if correct you can look at the data for the last few days and the deaths have increased quite a bit since those tweets a week ago. Edit: just read up on this guy and seems he’s been against any restrictions at any time during the pandemic. Think I’ll give his analysis a miss, thanks. Edited January 20, 2022 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Seat68 said: Back in the 80s, hooligans, trendies, casuals, whatever you local area called them, they used to don a scarf wrapped round the lower part of their face. Seems that generation grew up and said I can't be muzzled. Feels appropriate 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 17 minutes ago, nick76 said: Seriously? Now heading towards conspiracy theory territory or worse that it’s people that are old or I’ll anyway! I’m done with discussion. I’ve known people that have died from Covid over the lockdown and general pandemic period. Added to that my sister-in-law returned to work after New Years. She suffers severe stress related anxiety but manages really well 95% of the time on medication that controls it. After returning to work, she got Covid in the first week, got really sick and the stress increased the anxiety. The Covid impact to her increased her anxiety so much so thought she was going to die, causing sickness and breathing problems that we had to call an ambulance and she was in hospital for a couple of days. She is now home resting with additional medication. It wasn’t registered as anything to do with Covid but a mental health issue. So people are suffering mental health issues not only under lockdown but when returning to work, contracting Covid. Mental health issues are not just under lockdown is my point, mental health is mental health and can cause issues for people worrying about getting the virus and many other circumstances, not just lockdown. But to sacrifice actual deaths just to open up a bit…. Then talking about lockdown? We aren’t in lockdown, we are nothing like lockdown are we? we are under just a few restrictions. We aren’t confined to our homes or anything like it so I’m not sure your point is valid. Just feels like some people want to be selfish! What is conspiracy theory ? Asking for why the data is not being presented like it was before? Not sure what your on about there nick. I actually asked you to present the data if you can find it? You cant even ask a question now without it being a conspiracy theory? Ive lost people over the pandemic too nick and im sure everyone here has too. I am sorry to hear about your sister in law suffered but at least she is here to tell the tale. Some i know havent because the lock downs effected them so much. This is the point nick. I bet if you went villa park against United there was a host of people without masks and i bet not everyone was asked about vaccine passports. When i last went i wasnt asked which was wierd. I agree it is abit selfish but unfortunately you cant make everyone listen thats just the way it is. As ive said as long as your triple jabbed the science says you will be ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 23 minutes ago, nick76 said: But that’s old data now even if correct, I don’t know the guy. Even if correct you can look at the data for the last few days and the deaths have increased quite a bit since those tweets a week ago. Edit: just read up on this guy and seems he’s been against any restrictions at any time during the pandemic. Think I’ll give his analysis a miss, thanks. But the datas right in front of you so what what he believes as long as the information is correct? If its wrong fair enough but ignoring potential facts(if correct) because you dont agree with what they believe that doesnt make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: What is conspiracy theory ? Asking for why the data is not being presented like it was before? Not sure what your on about there nick. I actually asked you to present the data if you can find it? You cant even ask a question now without it being a conspiracy theory? Ive lost people over the pandemic too nick and im sure everyone here has too. I am sorry to hear about your sister in law suffered but at least she is here to tell the tale. Some i know havent because the lock downs effected them so much. This is the point nick. I bet if you went villa park against United there was a host of people without masks and i bet not everyone was asked about vaccine passports. When i last went i wasnt asked which was wierd. I agree it is abit selfish but unfortunately you cant make everyone listen thats just the way it is. As ive said as long as your triple jabbed the science says you will be ok Ok. We have different views on this topic, let’s just leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: But the datas right in front of you so what what he believes as long as the information is correct? If its wrong fair enough but ignoring potential facts(if correct) because you dont agree with what they believe that doesnt make sense to me. The question though is he correct with the data. I don’t have time to check his data. We know how people manipulate data both ways. I’m sure somebody will debunk it soon if it is wrong or I did more checking plus it’s a week old and deaths have risen a lot in the last week according to government released data so looking at his tweets from a week ago is already out of date. My issue is when somebody has been tarnished a number of times like this guy, then you have to question the data he is presenting to further his narrative. Is the data accurate? Is the data adjusted somehow? Is the data telling us everything? When your source is tarnished it brings into consideration any data they present. You can’t take his data on face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Dr John Campbell did a video the other day that does go through the stats quite thoroughly and quotes leading scientists, which if I'm being generous to Boris could be the science that everyone knows about, or whatever his quote was. Interestingly Scotland's omicron peak has been 6 times higher than their original peak, whereas England's has been about 3 times higher, even though there were more restrictions up there. There seems to be a consensus among the scientists he quotes that the virus is becoming endemic and we have accept a few hundred deaths a day like in a bad flu season, and the people who die from flu and covid tend to be the same group of people since omicron ran through the country. It's probably probably first time since the whole thing started that a flu and covid comparison can actually be made. Well worth a watch to help make your own mind up on what you think should happen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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