HanoiVillan Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Is this concept of a 'bad batch' actually plausible, from a scientific point of view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Is this concept of a 'bad batch' actually plausible, from a scientific point of view? I don’t think it sounds plausible, it raises all kinds of extremely serious questions if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Nurses not trusting it isn't political either Nurses should really be a guide to anything. My missus works with an Immunisation team, half of them refused the Pfizer Vaccine because they wanted to wait for the "British" one (AZ) ANd these are nurses who you'd think knew a little bit more about vaccinations that your average nurse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 14, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Nurses should really be a guide to anything. My missus works with an Immunisation team, half of them refused the Pfizer Vaccine because they wanted to wait for the "British" one (AZ) My daughter has a mate who's a doctor (GP), and she said she liked the idea of the Pfizer one better, but simply because she's a science geek, and is fascinated by the breakthrough RNA technology. She happily had the AZ one, all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 14, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Is this concept of a 'bad batch' actually plausible, from a scientific point of view? I do know that before a batch can be used it has to be checked by MHRA for quality control and cleared for use. In the early days they didn't have enough people so we ended up with a backlog of finished vaccines which couldn't be used as they hadn't been checked yet I would imagine this is in addition to whatever quality control procedures the manufacturer does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, bickster said: Nurses should really be a guide to anything. My missus works with an Immunisation team, half of them refused the Pfizer Vaccine because they wanted to wait for the "British" one (AZ) ANd these are nurses who you'd think knew a little bit more about vaccinations that your average nurse That's slightly different, than nurses not wanting to take the AZ cause they've seen colleagues die from it. One is legitimate fear, and the one one if stupidity or national bias (whatever word you choose to us for it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said: they've seen colleagues die from it. There is not one death attributable to a Covid vaccine (of any origin), out of 263 million doses administered worldwide. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, bickster said: There is not one death attributable to a Covid vaccine (of any origin), out of 263 million doses administered worldwide. It's just a dumb thing to argue. Problem is that you can't prove it if it's a bad batch, unless AZ takes it back and concludes so through extensive research. You'd have to do cohort studies or similar. And they would obviously never ever do that from a business PoV, at this point (unless forced), and it would also take a long ass time. So saying it's not one death attributable to covid vaccines when we've got very little research on that is rather pointless statement. Say the 4 nurses admitted with brain hemos here last week, after all taking the vaccine the same time. Most likely from the same batch. Say all of them had genetic disposition to have a bleeding on the brain. Just like I had. Then it's still a case where it looks likely the AZ vaccine triggered it, which isn't a good thing either. Cause LOADS of people have that disposition. If they all got it without having the genetic disposition, then that's just worse. Now it could all be a massive coincidence. People also win the lottery, but it seems so unlikely you could find your hypothesis for further research on it. Though the question is whether that's even doable at a batch that's so old. Edited March 14, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2021 Why is it only nurses affected? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 26 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: It's just a dumb thing to argue. Problem is that you can't prove it if it's a bad batch, unless AZ takes it back and concludes so through extensive research AZ will have the data for every single batch they make. It’ll be very easy for them to confirm if there was a bad batch. I actually think they’d hold some of every batch in storage for a period of time for this kind of query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, bickster said: Why is it only nurses affected? It it though? I don't know. But it suggests it's batch related. Nurses are prioritised in the vaccination que and I'm willing to bet the ones that were admitted took vaccines from the same batch. We haven't recieved a whole lot of vaccines so far and Norway is a relatively small population. Seems there are male nurses in the mix as well, so doubt it's gender specific. Now ofc. it could be something else entirely that's the issue here as well. No point looking for the answer with a predetermined mind about what's going on, but I fully understand the nurses who are sceptical or don't want to take it. And I also find the probability of these things happening simultaneously with the same anomalies, to healthy people in the same profession with no previous history of illnesses, with no connect to eh AZ vaccine to be pretty slim. Just seems weird to pretend it doesn't smell fishy. Best case is just to replace the entire vaccine batch. But that's probably guaranteed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 14, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2021 Just now, KenjiOgiwara said: It it though? I don't know. But it suggests it's batch related. Nurses are prioritised in the vaccination que and I'm willing to bet the ones that were admitted took vaccines from the same batch. We haven't recieved a whole lot of vaccines so far and Norway is a relatively small population. Seems there are male nurses in the mix as well, so doubt it's gender specific. Now ofc. it could be something else entirely that's the issue here as well. No point looking for the answer with a predetermined mind about what's going on, but I fully understand the nurses who are sceptical or don't want to take it. And I also find the probability of these things happening simultaneously with the same anomalies, to healthy people in the same profession with no previous history of illnesses, with no connect to eh AZ vaccine to be pretty slim. Just seems weird to pretend it doesn't smell fishy. Best case is just to replace the entire vaccine batch. But that's probably guaranteed to happen. It's the nurses thing, that seems to be a much more unusual common factor than the vaccine itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Genie said: AZ will have the data for every single batch they make. It’ll be very easy for them to confirm if there was a bad batch. I actually think they’d hold some of every batch in storage for a period of time for this kind of query. One thing is having standardised data for what you've produced, another thing is knowing what to look for. And that's before you know whether there's an error in the registered data. Edited March 14, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Is this concept of a 'bad batch' actually plausible, from a scientific point of view? Back at the start of the U.K. vaccination the Welsh programme got some criticism for being in 4th place in the its not a race, race. Much later, after the story was long gone, it transpired we had a batch that failed quality control and was destroyed, instantly putting the Welsh programme behind the others. I don’t know what the issue was, could have been incorrect labels or something. But we had what was very loosely described, as a bad batch of 25,000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 5 hours ago, sidcow said: 24 hours on from vaccination and no problems to report. Strangely I had a bit of an ache on my other arm when I woke up but I think that's because I slept on it funny. It is just your other arm coming out in sympathy. A phantom vaccination. I had a similar condition when my missus was pregnant and I put on 3 stone. I also had my first jab yesterday and have felt like crap since getting up this morning, aching all over, bit of a sore throat. Mild flu like symptoms I suppose which I think is quite common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 14, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: It is just your other arm coming out in sympathy. A phantom vaccination. I had a similar condition when my missus was pregnant and I put on 3 stone. I also had my first jab yesterday and have felt like crap since getting up this morning, aching all over, bit of a sore throat. Mild flu like symptoms I suppose which I think is quite common. All this is starting to make me worry about the fact that I didn't get any such reactions, and felt pretty much fine. Hope the bastards didn't give me a placebo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: One thing is having standardised data for what you've produced, another thing is knowing what to look for. And that's before you know whether there's an error in the registered data. These are world leading experts, I expect they will know what they’re looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Genie said: These are world leading experts, I expect they will know what they’re looking for. It's what you'd want, but from my experience lab data aren't all that straight forward when you don't even know what you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: All this is starting to make me worry about the fact that I didn't get any such reactions, and felt pretty much fine. Hope the bastards didn't give me a placebo. I think it is more the normal that you won't get any side effects. My missus and my eldest daughter, both nurses, have had both their jabs now and other than a bit of a sore arm have had no adverse side effects. My mom has also had her first jab and no problems. They all had the pfizer one though where as I had the AZ. In fairness it doesn't take much for me to to moan that I am on death doors especially when it comes to anything flu like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: It's what you'd want, but from my experience lab data aren't all that straight forward when you don't even know what you're looking for. If AZ are asked to check certain batches for a connection to blood clots they will be able to rapidly check the samples for levels of ingredients that could influence a blood clot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts