Generic Virus Thread

[nick76]

1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said:

let people decide how much mixing they want to do.

My biggest problem with this line of thinking though is the dumb mofos take advantage and ruin it for all us that take it seriously.  I have protected my family, kept away, masked up, jabbed hoping for better times yet dumb mofos go on stupid protests like in London the other day likely to spread Covid, defeating the objective they were trying to protest against because numbers are likely to rise thus lockdown.  Letting people decide what they do just means dumb mofos do dumb stuff and leaves the rest of us who are careful taking the brunt of it.

I’m not sure leaving to people is wise but also not in the governments hands is wise either.  I think we need more restrictions at the moment, I really do, otherwise we will end up in lockdown again.

[RussG]

15 minutes ago, nick76 said:

My biggest problem with this line of thinking though is the dumb mofos take advantage and ruin it for all us that take it seriously.  I have protected my family, kept away, masked up, jabbed hoping for better times yet dumb mofos go on stupid protests like in London the other day likely to spread Covid, defeating the objective they were trying to protest against because numbers are likely to rise thus lockdown.  Letting people decide what they do just means dumb mofos do dumb stuff and leaves the rest of us who are careful taking the brunt of it.

I’m not sure leaving to people is wise but also not in the governments hands is wise either.  I think we need more restrictions at the moment, I really do, otherwise we will end up in lockdown again.

At some point we have to make that transition though surely not? We have to move away from lockdowns for sake of  peoples mental health, wellbeing and the economy. (hospitality and the massive economy that it feeds for starters)

I'm far from a selfish person (my Mum is nearly 80 and she feels the same) but we just can't keep doing this.

Edited December 20, 2021 by RussG

[Xela]

I agree. My Dad is 70. He has COPD. He would be classed as vulnerable. He's out every day doing something... he's double vaxxed, boostered, wears his mask in shops and has sanitiser in his car. He's done his own risk assessment and is happy with that. He won't do certain things - football matches, anywhere with big crowds, etc, but he's happy with the risks he is taking.

I genuinely think he'd deteriorate if he was locked down at home and not going out. He's always been an active and 'busy' person. 

[foreveryoung]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

My biggest problem with this line of thinking though is the dumb mofos take advantage and ruin it for all us that take it seriously.  I have protected my family, kept away, masked up, jabbed hoping for better times yet dumb mofos go on stupid protests like in London the other day likely to spread Covid, defeating the objective they were trying to protest against because numbers are likely to rise thus lockdown.  Letting people decide what they do just means dumb mofos do dumb stuff and leaves the rest of us who are careful taking the brunt of it.

I’m not sure leaving to people is wise but also not in the governments hands is wise either.  I think we need more restrictions at the moment, I really do, otherwise we will end up in lockdown again.

Lockdown will all depend on how bad the symptoms are with Omicron. If they are just mild as is being wildly reported. a lockdown will not be necessary. If it starts killing people like the first wave, then we may go into lockdown, but it's extremely unlikely.

We may not have the scientific figures yet, but true front line on the ground figures are that most hospital admissions (this where my partner works) are mild cases with no need for oxygen.

[TheAuthority]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

I agree. My Dad is 70. He has COPD. He would be classed as vulnerable. He's out every day doing something... he's double vaxxed, boostered, wears his mask in shops and has sanitiser in his car. He's done his own risk assessment and is happy with that. He won't do certain things - football matches, anywhere with big crowds, etc, but he's happy with the risks he is taking.

I genuinely think he'd deteriorate if he was locked down at home and not going out. He's always been an active and 'busy' person. 

And my thought is that governments have only asked us to do this (outside of lockdowns.)

It's the muppets that think masks and vaccines are forms of control and other such conspiracy nonsense that have kept the pandemic going. (Combined with the West not rolling out the vaccines to 3rd world countries quickly enough.)

[markavfc40]

42 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It takes around 2 weeks for new cases to start hitting hospitals. 

So those cases from a couple of weeks ago when case numbers suddenly started a big uptick should be just starting to hit hospitals right now. 

The numbers admitted for the last 4 days are:

14-12-2021	919	615,331
13-12-2021	902	614,412
12-12-2021	850	613,510
11-12-2021	778	612,660

 

So we have seen a steady rise the last few days, indeed the latest figure is 18% higher than the 4 days earlier. 

Actually just noticed these figures (from the Government Coronavirus website) are a week out of date.  Not sure if they are usually this far behind, anyone know? 

These are the figures up until December 18th in England apparently.

 

 

[Panto_Villan]

29 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

If cases double, and some, then even if hospitalisations increased by 50% then that is still a good sign that the new variant isn't as severe. In fact anything less than the same increase percentage wise in hospitalisations to cases is a good thing but obviously the bigger the difference the better. Early days but early signs seem to be that the increase in cases won't be mirrored by the same increase in hospitalisations and therefore hopefully deaths. 

This would be true if it weren't for the fact that Omicron can more easily reinfect people who have already had it / are vaccinated, and are therefore in a much better position to survive.

The actual test for severity is whether it's more likely to kill someone that is unvaccinated. Otherwise the figures are skewed by the fact Omicron can infect a bunch of people that Delta can't, but aren't going to die of covid, which gives an artificially high survival rate. That effect could potentially hide the fact that Omicron is equally or possibly even more deadly to the unprotected than Delta is.

[Panto_Villan]

Just to make crystal clear the effect in the post above, a thought experiment you have 100 pensioners, 80 of whom are vaccinated:

Delta infects the 20 unvaccinated people and 10 die. Survival rate: 50%

Omicron infects all 100 people. The vaccinated all have minor symptoms, but all 20 unvaccinated die. Survival rate: 80%

Omicron is actually twice as deadly as Delta but looks milder (numbers purely for illustration). This is why some scientists are urging caution about the initial numbers suggesting Omicron is milder.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[nick76]

25 minutes ago, RussG said:

At some point we have to make that transition though surely not? We have to move away from lockdowns for sake of  peoples mental health, wellbeing and the economy. (hospitality and the massive economy that it feeds for starters)

I'm far from a selfish person (my Mum is nearly 80 and she feels the same) but we just can't keep doing this.

But what are we doing? Some jabs and wearing masks at the moment, it’s not hardship is it? I think just a bit more and then it means we won’t have to go into lockdown, I think being slightly careful now over the coming month or so would mean we’d never have to go in lockdown (unless Omicron spirals out of control which doesn’t look like it).  

So the problem is, “we can’t keep doing” what? We aren’t doing anything at the moment apart from jabs and masks which is nothing considering we in a pandemic.  We’ve only gone into lockdown when things get really hairy and surely that’s only right to do to stop it being rampant.  

So I honestly don’t understand what the “we can’t keep doing” part is. 

[nick76]

45 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

If they are just mild as is being wildly reported.

I’m not sure I agree with this, there are various reports on this.  I can’t agree it’s been widely reported as mild.  There are early reports of being mild but also many dispute this and refer back to the early data and reports on the Delta variant giving a false impression that was seen later.  Many dispute as well the initial findings that it is milder.

Edited December 20, 2021 by nick76

[Panto_Villan]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But what are we doing? Some jabs and wearing masks at the moment, it’s not hardship is it? I think just a bit more and then it means we won’t have to go into lockdown, I think being slightly careful now over the coming month or so would mean we’d never have to go in lockdown (unless Omicron spirals out of control which doesn’t look like it).  

So the problem is, “we can’t keep doing” what? We aren’t doing anything at the moment apart from jabs and masks which is nothing considering we in a pandemic.  We’ve only gone into lockdown when things get really hairy and surely that’s only right to do to stop it being rampant.  

So I honestly don’t understand what the “we can’t keep doing” part is. 

Lots of people just aren't going out to public places, and are cutting their social contacts down to close friends and family - maybe you're not doing that, but I and plenty of others are. That's a bigger inconvenience than jabs or masks.

It's fine for a short period while they figure out how dangerous Omicron is. Large numbers of people voluntarily putting themselves in lockdown / not socialising isn't a sustainable solution in the long term, though.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Lots of people just aren't going out to public places, and are cutting their social contacts down to close friends and family - maybe you're not doing that, but I and plenty of others are. That's a bigger inconvenience than jabs or masks.

It's fine for a short period while they figure out how dangerous Omicron is. Large numbers of people voluntarily putting themselves in lockdown / not socialising isn't a sustainable solution in the long term, though.

I am as well but it’s not a massive inconvenience given we are in a pandemic.  I mean Covid is working 24/7 to infect everybody it can, it doesn’t give a shit about all the things you mention.  It’s not something that can just be dismissed.  

Literally a bit of inconvenience of not socialising with people that aren’t close friends or family isn’t a big deal in a pandemic.  Of all the issues in the world this would be sarcastically classed as a “first world issue” and that’s not a dig at you but think about it.  In a pandemic, a new mutated variant that the worst case for first world people is they can’t gather in large groups and can only see their friends and family, have a few jabs and wear a mask occasionally and people are complaining it’s too much of an inconvenience.  People are too spoilt!

[hippo]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

My biggest problem with this line of thinking though is the dumb mofos take advantage and ruin it for all us that take it seriously.  I have protected my family, kept away, masked up, jabbed hoping for better times yet dumb mofos go on stupid protests like in London the other day likely to spread Covid, defeating the objective they were trying to protest against because numbers are likely to rise thus lockdown.  Letting people decide what they do just means dumb mofos do dumb stuff and leaves the rest of us who are careful taking the brunt of it.

I’m not sure leaving to people is wise but also not in the governments hands is wise either.  I think we need more restrictions at the moment, I really do, otherwise we will end up in lockdown again.

Should we let people make up there own minds against wearing seatbelts in cars (public opinion always against it)

Governments should govern. I despise this light touch government style. 

We really are hurtling towards Singapore on Thames. So long as the big business can keep selling stuff - the Joe in street fighting for his breath can feck himself.

Boris can't bear to be disliked - of nearly all the PM's in my lifetime his style is absolutely the worst to be handling a pandemic. He can't joke way out of people dying or describe covid as a load of "bunklehump" - it really is sickening to watch.

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I am as well but it’s not a massive inconvenience given we are in a pandemic.  I mean Covid is working 24/7 to infect everybody it can, it doesn’t give a shit about all the things you mention.  It’s not something that can just be dismissed.  

Literally a bit of inconvenience of not socialising with people that aren’t close friends or family isn’t a big deal in a pandemic.  Of all the issues in the world this would be sarcastically classed as a “first world issue” and that’s not a dig at you but think about it.  In a pandemic, a new mutated variant that the worst case for first world people is they can’t gather in large groups and can only see their friends and family, have a few jabs and wear a mask occasionally and people are complaining it’s too much of an inconvenience.  People are too spoilt!

I've quoted a million times that my parents hid in the cellar or dashed down to the air raid shelter in the middle of the night. Whilst planes few overhead dropping explosives on them - night after night.

The pubs shutting a bit early, wearing a mask, getting a jab really doesn't come anywhere near.

[ml1dch]

 

In other words, as long as there is nothing imminent in the next say, week or so that means younger generations will be mixing more than usual with older generations then there's nothing to be worried about.

Edited December 20, 2021 by ml1dch

[Rolta]

2 hours ago, RussG said:

At some point we have to make that transition though surely not? We have to move away from lockdowns for sake of  peoples mental health, wellbeing and the economy. (hospitality and the massive economy that it feeds for starters)

I'm far from a selfish person (my Mum is nearly 80 and she feels the same) but we just can't keep doing this.

I've talked about this a few times. In my experience in Spain we only ever had a lockdown for the first three months of the pandemic. Since then there's been face masks...and the results show that schools and unis have been open with normal classes, and the covid numbers have been nothing like in the UK. Again, just the one lockdown. Because we haven't needed it unlike the UK. The difference between the two countries, having spent all my time between the two seems blatant. I'm shocked at how difficult some people want to make the pandemic and it's really easy to draw conclusions that it's the cynical, moaning, ever complaining lot who are really making it drag on and worse for everyone.

I'm not sure my point is clear: in Spain, we never pretended the pandemic finished. We have worn masks since the first summer. We've been able to get on with it, and the level of spoilt selfish moaning, refusing to wear masks, had been night and day. In the UK it seems like a massive proportion of the country behave like a bunch of spoilt children. And those spoilt children are making things worse. And then when things get worse they moan even more. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Rolta

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

So the problem is, “we can’t keep doing” what? We aren’t doing anything at the moment apart from jabs and masks which is nothing considering we in a pandemic.

This is bizarre. We're doing 'nothing', apart from the fastest rollout of boosters in the whole world.

You appear to have decided that a lockdown is simply the baseline response, and that nothing else counts. That's a very odd way of looking at things.

[bobzy]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is bizarre. We're doing 'nothing', apart from the fastest rollout of boosters in the whole world.

You appear to have decided that a lockdown is simply the baseline response, and that nothing else counts. That's a very odd way of looking at things.

I think it was in response to someone saying “we can’t keep doing this”. What is it that we can’t keep doing? The impact on the public at the moment is pretty minimal. Wear a mask… I think that’s it? There’s not that much to be getting fed up about (outside of the endless covid chat, I guess ).

[nick76]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

This is bizarre. We're doing 'nothing', apart from the fastest rollout of boosters in the whole world.

You appear to have decided that a lockdown is simply the baseline response, and that nothing else counts. That's a very odd way of looking at things.

I think you’ve completely misunderstood my post/comments.  If you read back through the last few pages I meant the public, you and I are aren’t restricted really.  the ‘nothing’ you are referring to is not government or science but what me and you are doing which is currently getting jabs for ourselves, wearing our masks and being careful, which in a pandemic is not very much.  You’re talking about the other side of it ie government/science etc re rollouts.

As for me wanting lockdown, I literally said above if we had a bit more restrictions and we followed it, it would mean we could avoid lockdowns.  

So I think you have misread/misunderstood.

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think it was in response to someone saying “we can’t keep doing this”. What is it that we can’t keep doing? The impact on the public at the moment is pretty minimal. Wear a mask… I think that’s it? There’s not that much to be getting fed up about (outside of the endless covid chat, I guess ).

Yep, this!