icouldtelltheworld Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, PaulC said: When do we play Sheffield United? If he bangs in a couple against us people might think differently. I don't understand this limited player business. He perhaps hasn't the physical attributes of Watkins or Duran but he's still learning and improving. Its basically one of those things that has been repeated over and over on VT and is now taken as gospel on here, with very little basis in reality Edited September 2, 2023 by icouldtelltheworld 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Folski said: In fairness to Archer I feel like he’s very different to Watkins. Ollie’s weakness is his finishing which can be very hit and miss. A great finish for his first today. Got to be frustrated he didn’t get more of a chance. Watkins has one real weakness. His touch is average at best. The finishing thing is overblown. Every striker misses chances. Ollie isn't especially profligate. 1 goal in 3 chances is considered a good finisher, Ollie isn't far off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 MOTD - praise Beto (0 goals), praise Pickford (1 own goal), not one mention of Archer Beto did look very good but still. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 58 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Watkins has one real weakness. His touch is average at best. The finishing thing is overblown. Every striker misses chances. Ollie isn't especially profligate. 1 goal in 3 chances is considered a good finisher, Ollie isn't far off that. His passing is also awful and his finishing is certainly a weakness for a number 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 You watch, if he carries on like this Sheff Utd fans will get the paranoia that we'll bring him back. Welcome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 12 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said: Its basically one of those things that has been repeated over and over on VT and is now taken as gospel on here, with very little basis in reality That's just not true at all. Players function in different ways; if someone said to be "Archer is a better finisher than Watkins" I'd probably agree. If someone said "Archer is a better forward than Watkins" I'd disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 10 hours ago, Philosopher said: Watkins has one real weakness. His touch is average at best. The finishing thing is overblown. Every striker misses chances. Ollie isn't especially profligate. 1 goal in 3 chances is considered a good finisher, Ollie isn't far off that. no I love oli, but he is definitely not a natural finisher. he gets goals buy he doesn't instinctively take the right option in front of goal. Archer is more a natural finisher but not as good an all round forward just yet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 however what I really wanted to check is whether anyone has actually reported there is a buy back clause or is it just a rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Cameron does not fit our system. He needs a striking partner, like McBurnie to do the donkey work. He may well be successful at other clubs, but I cannot ever see him make it here with Unai in charge. We cannot revolve our system around a player who isn't physical enough to play 95% of our games. I think it is just that he is a good CF, but not for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: Cameron does not fit our system. He needs a striking partner, like McBurnie to do the donkey work. He may well be successful at other clubs, but I cannot ever see him make it here with Unai in charge. We cannot revolve our system around a player who isn't physical enough to play 95% of our games. I think it is just that he is a good CF, but not for us. I don't believe that at all. he is easily. Good enough player that with time he vould fit into an emery style team. I agree that at the moment he would struggle but with more confidence and physical strength he could play as a 9 or a 10. he has good acceleration, vision and can pass the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, tezzaleed said: I don't believe that at all. he is easily. Good enough player that with time he vould fit into an emery style team. I agree that at the moment he would struggle but with more confidence and physical strength he could play as a 9 or a 10. he has good acceleration, vision and can pass the ball. I think we're saying the same thing. I think he's a good enough footballer, but I don't think he has or ever will have the physical strength to play 50 games a season as the single striker, not many players do but Ollie is a freak of an athlete. I get the impression he wants to play regular football, and couldn't here. Also probably got a pay rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: I think we're saying the same thing. I think he's a good enough footballer, but I don't think he has or ever will have the physical strength to play 50 games a season as the single striker, not many players do but Ollie is a freak of an athlete. I get the impression he wants to play regular football, and couldn't here. Also probably got a pay rise. not quite I think he will naturally get the physical strength in his 20's, but agree he hasn't got it yet. which is why I'd like to know whether this buy back clause is based in reality in some way or just fiction based on wishful thinking. Edited September 3, 2023 by tezzaleed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted September 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 3, 2023 17 hours ago, CosmicVillan said: 1. Because we will have to pay more to bring him back than we sold him for and he will be on bigger wages, 2. If Watkins get injured the drop off to Duran is lot bigger than the drop off to Archer Very strange decision for me, we had enough matches this season to give him game time, the kid is clearly ready for the step up. If we end up buying him back yes he’ll cost more - we’ll have effectively paid Sheff Utd a fee to develop a player in order to be good enough for us, but less then that player would normally cost. That’s a good deal for us. Yes he’ll be on higher wages, as he would if he developed here and we gave him a new contract. If anything, the terms agreed now are probably favourable for us compared to a new £40 m signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: Cameron does not fit our system. He needs a striking partner, like McBurnie to do the donkey work. He may well be successful at other clubs, but I cannot ever see him make it here with Unai in charge. We cannot revolve our system around a player who isn't physical enough to play 95% of our games. I think it is just that he is a good CF, but not for us. Have you even seen him play? He’s an absolute unit. He destroyed defenders at Middlesbrough add to that he’s as quick as anyone we have in our squad Edited September 3, 2023 by kidlewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 43 minutes ago, tezzaleed said: however what I really wanted to check is whether anyone has actually reported there is a buy back clause or is it just a rumour. We must have because we are incredibly stupid if we’ve just let him go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, kidlewis said: We must have because we are incredibly stupid if we’ve just let him go that's just wishful thinking though rather than it was reported somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 25 minutes ago, tezzaleed said: not quite I think he will naturally get the physical strength in his 20's, but agree he hasn't got it yet. which is why I'd like to know whether this buy back clause is based in reality in some way or just fiction based on wishful thinking. Has been reported a lot of places but its just for one year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Have you even seen him play? He’s an absolute unit. He destroyed defenders at Middlesbrough add to that he’s as quick as anyone we have in our squad Yeah, I've seen him play. But he wasn't the single CF at Boro. Premier League defenders will bully him on his own. Ollie and Duran are units and have the physical attributes, I just don't see archer in that mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Akpom bullied defenders more than Archer at Middlesbrough, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 58 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: I think we're saying the same thing. I think he's a good enough footballer, but I don't think he has or ever will have the physical strength to play 50 games a season as the single striker, not many players do but Ollie is a freak of an athlete. I get the impression he wants to play regular football, and couldn't here. Also probably got a pay rise. 18 minutes ago, luckyeddie said: Yeah, I've seen him play. But he wasn't the single CF at Boro. Premier League defenders will bully him on his own. Ollie and Duran are units and have the physical attributes, I just don't see archer in that mould. What do you actually mean with this talk of physicality? Are you saying that he's not big and strong enough? He will easily match Watkins in that department given some time, players start to bulk as they get into their 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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