DCJonah Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, nick76 said: So the Villa fans are looking to get rid of another manager, we havent even got through a full season with Dean yet with him coming in last season and getting us promoted and only 3/4 through this season with still a chance that we'll stay up. No wonder we are labelled fickle fans, we never give anybody a real chance to manage this club. Our target this season was always survival and we still have a great chance of that but no let's just give up now. I'm as depressed as anybody on here but aiming for safety this season, we were always going to be bad for large parts of the season, we just have to be less bad than three others. Until that final whistle happens we are still right in the mix of whether we are or arent. Do we look like winning? No. Do our rivals look like winning? No....so just battle through these next 8 games and hope we can nick a win or two and then reassess as a group at the end of the season. This is a really good point. When you consider the position we were in when he took over, its crazy that some fans are in a position where they wouldn't let him have one full season in charge. I mean, surely everyone can see how mad that is. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Eastie said: How about it’s not good enough but we will give our all to rectify things ? This continual praise for poor performances is doing himself no favours i watched Chris wilder after the game yesterday and he pulled no punches making clear it was totally unacceptable and needed to improve - smith fools nobody with his post match comments - not tough enough to command respect in my opinion I don’t disagree with that to be fair, but I’m afraid he’s just not that kind of bloke, which is probably the root of our/his troubles. I like the fella, but I can’t say I have a great deal of faith in him being able to turn this around. It’s probably time for him to go. However I don’t like people handing out personal abuse, he doesn’t deserve that. He shouldn’t keep his job because he’s a Villa fan, nor should that absolve him of serious criticism. However it should allow him some respect and protection from viscous abuse. The fact that he’s one of our own should count for that much at least. Not that I’m saying for a moment that you are guilty of anything like that Eastie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: So the Villa fans are looking to get rid of another manager, we havent even got through a full season with Dean yet with him coming in last season and getting us promoted and only 3/4 through this season with still a chance that we'll stay up. No wonder we are labelled fickle fans, we never give anybody a real chance to manage this club. Our target this season was always survival and we still have a great chance of that but no let's just give up now. I'm as depressed as anybody on here but aiming for safety this season, we were always going to be bad for large parts of the season, we just have to be less bad than three others. Until that final whistle happens we are still right in the mix of whether we are or arent. Do we look like winning? No. Do our rivals look like winning? No....so just battle through these next 8 games and hope we can nick a win or two and then reassess as a group at the end of the season. Nuno Santo has been given time because there has been constant progression. Same with Wilder. You aren't just given time for the sake of it. Has to be earned. I understand it's a big challenge to assemble together a team with so many summer signings, but why do we look worse now than in August? Why don't we turn up for most games? Why do we look so passive? Comes from the coaching, no doubt. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I don’t disagree with that to be fair, but I’m afraid he’s just not that kind of bloke, which is probably the root of our/his troubles. I like the fella, but I can’t say I have a great deal of faith in him being able to turn this around. It’s probably time for him to go. However I don’t like people handing out personal abuse, he doesn’t deserve that. He shouldn’t keep his job because he’s a Villa fan, nor should that absolve him of serious criticism. However it should allow him some respect and protection from viscous abuse. The fact that he’s one of our own should count for that much at least. Not that I’m saying for a moment that you are guilty of anything like that Eastie. He is a nice bloke and the sort of guy you’d want as a friend but you are right , I think we are grateful for the part he played last season but I don’t think this can continue - unless there is a huge change in attitude and performance on Wednesday I don’t see how purslow can persist in this - at least go down fighting and having a go if we are to drop - as it is we are rolling over and far too negative 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, nick76 said: So the Villa fans are looking to get rid of another manager, we havent even got through a full season with Dean yet with him coming in last season and getting us promoted and only 3/4 through this season with still a chance that we'll stay up. No wonder we are labelled fickle fans, we never give anybody a real chance to manage this club. Our target this season was always survival and we still have a great chance of that but no let's just give up now. I'm as depressed as anybody on here but aiming for safety this season, we were always going to be bad for large parts of the season, we just have to be less bad than three others. Until that final whistle happens we are still right in the mix of whether we are or arent. Do we look like winning? No. Do our rivals look like winning? No....so just battle through these next 8 games and hope we can nick a win or two and then reassess as a group at the end of the season. This is pants mate! There is no progression and it's the manner in which we are still losing games, that is why he should go. We have not improved over the season and how you think this is going to change now, I have no idea? Keeping him even if we stay up is suicide. He looks like manager who is ready to go, but the board don't wanna pay him off. If he admits his mistakes or the teams, he would get a lot more respect. By the time he does go, it will be Lambert all over again and Smith will be a broken man. Do we really want to wait that long, the job is to much for him and it shows. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Nuno Santo has been given time because there has been constant progression. Same with Wilder. You aren't just given time for the sake of it. Has to be earned. I understand it's a big challenge to assemble together a team with so many summer signings, but why do we look worse now than in August? Why don't we turn up for most games? Why do we look so passive? Comes from the coaching, no doubt. Club record winning streak to win promotion a year before most expected. A cup final 3 points off survival. Yeah, I can see why he's done nothing to earn 1 full season at his job. Its just utter nonsense 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Club record winning streak to win promotion a year before most expected. A cup final 3 points off survival. Yeah, I can see why he's done nothing to earn 1 full season at his job. Its just utter nonsense It’s about the here and now though - one league win since New Year’s Day - worst defence in the league and poor performances - football is a ruthless game - poch was fired months after a champions league final , smith has had more than a fair crack at the whip and things are not improving at all - he must be judged on here and now not what happened last year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Club record winning streak to win promotion a year before most expected. A cup final 3 points off survival. Yeah, I can see why he's done nothing to earn 1 full season at his job. Its just utter nonsense No. It's you who speak utter nonsense. Finishing in the top 6 in the Championship in the minimum requirement expected. How you get there doesn't matter. A losing cup final is something i couldn't care less about. You're talking like a Brentford or a Norwich fan. Loser mentality. We spent 100+ million in the summer to ensure we're not in this position. The very least we should expect is the team showing some fight and desire. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 lets say we go down - keep smith - come back up - does anybody really think it would be different next time around ? Much as I like the bloke, and will be ever thankful for last seasons Wembley appearance, the bottom line is you can not concede goals at the rate we do and hope to survive in the top division - A poor goals against has followed smith in most of his managerial jobs. I really don't see it changing now. However I do believe there is around a 70% chance that DS will start next season. If what I have heard is true we will get an announcement to that effect over the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: This is pants mate! There is no progression and it's the manner in which we are still losing games, that is why he should go. We have not improved over the season and how you think this is going to change now, I have no idea? Keeping him even if we stay up is suicide. He looks like manager who is ready to go, but the board don't wanna pay him off. If he admits his mistakes or the teams, he would get a lot more respect. By the time he does go, it will be Lambert all over again and Smith will be a broken man. Do we really want to wait that long, the job is to much for him and it shows. Well we'll have to agree to disagree. We had to buy quantity not quality in close season because we had so many to buy. If we stay up then he's been successful....promotion followed by staving off relegation and a cup final appearance. He will then have chance to buy some quality players and the project players brought last season will have a year under their belt. If by the end of next season we are still poor then yeah I'll be on your side but not now....sorry mate I dont agree. We started the season against 17 teams that were already established and were buying players. We had virtually no squad had to utilise our money wisely on quantity to fill the squad and then try and stay up. I dont agree with the Lambert comparison. Why the hell would he need to admit mistakes publicly, that's just plain daft. I honestly dont feel this job is too much for him, I think most managers would've had the same issues in their own way and our history proves that over the last 20 years with the amount of managers we have gone through and the amount of times this board has said the manager needs to go. I want to buck the trend, I want to stick with Dean whose only been here 18 months. If we stay up he has been successful and deserves another crack with the chance to buy better players and if we fail and get relegated then for me there is nobody better to get us promotion than Dean. So I'm all in Dean with way! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, nick76 said: Well we'll have to agree to disagree. We had to buy quantity not quality in close season because we had so many to buy. If we stay up then he's been successful....promotion followed by staving off relegation and a cup final appearance. He will then have chance to buy some quality players and the project players brought last season will have a year under their belt. If by the end of next season we are still poor then yeah I'll be on your side but not now....sorry mate I dont agree. We started the season against 17 teams that were already established and were buying players. We had virtually no squad had to utilise our money wisely on quantity to fill the squad and then try and stay up. I dont agree with the Lambert comparison. Why the hell would he need to admit mistakes publicly, that's just plain daft. I honestly dont feel this job is too much for him, I think most managers would've had the same issues in their own way and our history proves that over the last 20 years with the amount of managers we have gone through and the amount of times this board has said the manager needs to go. I want to buck the trend, I want to stick with Dean whose only been here 18 months. If we stay up he has been successful and deserves another crack with the chance to buy better players and if we fail and get relegated then for me there is nobody better to get us promotion than Dean. So I'm all in Dean with way! No. Quantity would be like Lambert did. Shopping for peanuts in the lower leagues. We spend some decent fees on players this summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, hippo said: lets say we go down - keep smith - come back up - does anybody really think it would be different next time around ? Much as I like the bloke, and will be ever thankful for last seasons Wembley appearance, the bottom line is you can not concede goals at the rate we do and hope to survive in the top division - A poor goals against has followed smith in most of his managerial jobs. I really don't see it changing now. However I do believe there is around a 70% chance that DS will start next season. If what I have heard is true we will get an announcement to that effect over the next few weeks. Maybe sack Suso and move smith to director of football in charge of recruitment similar to how redknapp was moved aside but we need a new head coach in my opinion . Edited June 22, 2020 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Again I agree. But for me, and only for this year, surviving is all that matters. If we don't then Smith and the club have failed. But if we do, I really dont care how ugly and bad its all been. That stuff I'll care about next year when we start to build something. Right now its not priority. Smith is not doing a great job, he's not my dream manager and he doesn't get a free pass. But in his time here he has exceeded my expectations and is 3 points away from meeting it for this year. I just can't turn on him when that's the case. Some valid points there but i just cant see how we can build on where we are with Smith here. Defensively we looks dreadfful and you cant expect to stay up with a manager like that. I also think villa fans have been veey patient with smith this season. The pressure will be x10 worse next season in the championship for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Nuno Santo has been given time because there has been constant progression. Same with Wilder. You aren't just given time for the sake of it. Has to be earned. I understand it's a big challenge to assemble together a team with so many summer signings, but why do we look worse now than in August? Why don't we turn up for most games? Why do we look so passive? Comes from the coaching, no doubt. Wilder joined Sheff Utd on 12th May 2016, after 18 months in charge was NOT in the Premier League......where is that progression Dean Smith joined Villa on 10th October 2018, after 18 months in charge was in the Premier League, still had a great chance of surviving and appeared in a Cup Final............at the same time period Smith is showing progression over Wilder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: Some valid points there but i just cant see how we can build on where we are with Smith here. Defensively we looks dreadfful and you cant expect to stay up with a manager like that. I also think villa fans have been veey patient with smith this season. The pressure will be x10 worse next season in the championship for him I think his achievements last season bought him more time , many clubs would have pulled the trigger in January , he’s had a fair crack of the whip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, Eastie said: Maybe sack Suso and move smith to director of football but we need a new head coach in my opinion . Couldn't see that working. DS is happy being coach and doesn't want to step back from the training pitch. IMO should we go down - the feeling is that even if the big name players leave there isn't much required for us to be a force in the championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, nick76 said: Wilder joined Sheff Utd on 12th May 2016, after 18 months in charge was NOT in the Premier League......where is that progression Dean Smith joined Villa on 10th October 2018, after 18 months in charge was in the Premier League, still had a great chance of surviving and appeared in a Cup Final............at the same time period Smith is showing progression over Wilder! Sheffield United didn't have the backing power we've had. Not even comparable bud. Both Wilder and Howe managed to do what Smith failed to do at Brentford. Getting promoted with limited resources. Edited June 22, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Club record winning streak to win promotion a year before most expected. A cup final 3 points off survival. Yeah, I can see why he's done nothing to earn 1 full season at his job. Its just utter nonsense Claudio Ranieri says hi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, hippo said: Couldn't see that working. DS is happy being coach and doesn't want to step back from the training pitch. IMO should we go down - the feeling is that even if the big name players leave there isn't much required for us to be a force in the championship But would we be any better should we again be promoted under smith ? He must change his style as it will not work at this level - we need to be fluent and able to adapt to situations , we are far too easy to play against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, hippo said: Couldn't see that working. DS is happy being coach and doesn't want to step back from the training pitch. IMO should we go down - the feeling is that even if the big name players leave there isn't much required for us to be a force in the championship He may be happy Being a coach but he must deliver results - if he can’t do that He shouldn’t be in the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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